Christian Pavón and T. Sassersson at NewsVoice met with Sergej Beljajev, the Russian Ambassador to Sweden, for a non-hostile interview about international relations, NATO, war, trade cooperation like BRICS and how to overcome animosity to normalize diplomatic relations.
Transcription
Christian Pavón: Thank you. Mr. Ambassador for letting us have this interview and we at Newsvoice, our intent is to make such an impartial and non-biased picture of Russia as possible, because we think that in our time many Swedish media outlets and other established media outlets in the Western World always have a fixed agenda.
Ambassador Sergej Beljajev: I’m very glad to greet you in the Russian Embassy. We are open for all the discussions and for press also, and for me it will be really a pleasure to answer your questions and to speak with your audience.
Christian Pavón: Have you had any meaningful discussions with Swedish government officials or the Swedish high-ranking officials?
Sergej Beljajev: Well, to tell you the truth, I had a very good conversation with His Majesty the King when I gave him my credentials, but today we have no political contacts between Russia and Sweden, it’s a choice of Swedish side. As for me, I’m open for discussions and my attitude is that it is better to exchange views and to speak, to understand each other’s position.
Christian Pavón: Do you think that will change in the future, that perhaps Swedish politicians will change their stance?
Sergej Beljajev: Well, it depends on what future we are speaking about, because if we remember that relations between Russia and Sweden have a great history that lasts for more than a thousand years.
During this period of time, we had different periods when we had contacts, we didn’t have contacts, we even were in very strong contradiction with each other, the wars between Russia and Sweden, and for the last more than two centuries, there is a time of peaceful cooperation and civil relations between our countries, and I’m sure that there will be time when we restore contacts, restore cooperation, the case is when it will happen.
Christian Pavón: And that brings us a bit to the next question. And is it any, do you see any leaning in the Swedish political spectrum towards understanding Russia or is it like, what you call, a dead set, is it like very hard to improve, do you think?
Sergej Beljajev: Well, there is, of course, mainstream and this so-called general attitude is now very much against Russia and it depends, of course, on the propaganda and attitudes of political elite and of mass media. You can see that whatever happens in the world, whatever happens in our Baltic region, the first thesis is that it’s Russia who is guilty.
And we can see this issue of the example of this cable accidents in Baltic Sea. Well, the first reaction is that when cable is damaged, it’s a Russian operation for sabotage or something like this. And it’s in the headlines.
Then it occurs that it was not Russia at all, but some other actors who participated. It was not a sabotage, but an accident which happens in the sea. But nobody will publish an article that, well, you guys, we were wrong.
It was not Russia, so for many people it remains such an attitude that Russia is doing all the bad things.
Christian Pavón: Yeah, it’s the narrative, and I googled about accidents at sea cables, how often it happens occurs. And it occurs pretty often, and very often to be exact, so it’s a bit interesting that they decided that it was Russia, and then they discovered that it was not, it was an accident, and like you said, it was very little press coverage of that.
Ambassador Sergej Beljajev: Yes, and of course such attitude influences the public opinion, and ordinary people in northern European countries, as we know, are well-educated. It’s countries where people really like to read newspapers and believe what they learn from, for example, TV and so on and so forth. So it’s quite understandable.
Christian Pavón: And what do you think are the right ways in promoting better relationships between Sweden and Russia? Because I think it’s, when you look at the established media and the government, they have a pretty dead-set view that Russia is always to culprit, and they always try to frame each narrative to portray Russia as a bad country, but they never, they say, don’t take their perspective, your perspective into the picture. So what do you think, as an ambassador in Sweden, is the best way to promote better relationships between Sweden and Russia?
Sergej Beljajev: Well, to have contacts, because from my point of view, the better we know each other, the better we understand each other. We can be of very different opinions on some issues, on politics, on values, on some other issues, but we should respect each other, and we should try to understand the way of thinking, the logic of the other nations.
Today we have the situation where there is no political contacts, but at the same time, there is no contacts between people. There is no cultural exchanges. There is no sport events, because you know that Sweden is among the countries who oppose very strongly the participants of Russian sportsmen in international events. There is no economic cooperation.
Tourism is on a very low level. There is even a great lack in relations between civil societies, because for many years, even during the Cold War, there was rather big exchanges in the sphere of culture, in the sphere of sports, between youth organizations, between non-government organizations, between cities. Now all these contacts are collapsed.
Is it possible to speak about, for example, ballet, do not take into account Russia? Is it possible to speak about, well, classic music, about opera without taking into account Russia’s theaters? Is it possible to speak about, well, ice hockey?
I was a child in the 1970s and lived in Canada where my father worked in the Soviet embassy. But I do remember how Russian poor, I beg your pardon, Soviet hockey team came to Canada and Canadians went to Soviet Union to play. And it was a great event both for the Soviet Union and for Canada because it was two great teams. And it was really interesting. Today we do not have this.
You know, the better people have the possibility to contact with ordinary people. I do not speak now about diplomats, politicians, but about, well, people-to-people contacts. The more contacts you have, the more information you have about how people live in another country. Usually, the better is your attitude to this country because you see that, well, Russia, for example, is not a place you should be afraid of.
I should say that contacts, mutual understanding, mutual respect, and mutual confidence is the key points if we speak about the relations between not only the countries but between the peoples. One should not think that he or she is better only because, well, he represents some certain system of values. We should understand that people are different. We respect Swedish traditions, Swedish society.
We respect how Swedish people do understand the world around them. But at the same time, well, Russians have a little bit different attitude to values and to, well, life traditions. Even within Russia, we see different regions. In Caucasus, for example, Chechens, they have a very different way of life than people in Moscow. If we see Muslim population of Russia, for example, Tatarstan, they have their own way of life.
The same stands for almost all people because you should not expect that, for example, people in the Middle East or in Africa will act and live in the same way as we live, for example, in Russia. And we should not make them to live like we. They have right to choose their own way, to have their own culture, their own traditions.
And if we understand this, if we understand that all people have right to be themselves, it gives us a very good ground for cooperation and understanding.
Because, well, many good things we can see in Northern Europe and in Scandinavian way of life. in Swedish society that was once upon a time a society of common prosperity. For example, when we were developing laws in our country, we examined very carefully the forestry laws of Sweden and Finland, because these countries have great traditions of forestry. And when we made our new laws about the forest industry, we took many valuable ideas and experience from the Nordic countries. It’s natural.
Christian Pavón: And then it brings us to a more international theme and what are your thoughts about BRICS and the future of that alliance?
Ambassador Sergej Beljajev: Well BRICS is a very interesting organization. It is, as you know it was established in the year 2009. And it is growing. As you know, what does it mean BRICS? It’s a cooperation of countries, Brazil, India, China, Russia and South Africa.
It was the beginning of the organization. Now we have in this organization six more countries. Last year five countries, Egypt, Iran, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Ethiopia joined BRICS. And in the beginning of this year Indonesia also became a member of this group.
And there are a lot of countries who not only want to collaborate with BRICS but want to be in. And now there is a new issue, candidate to member states. And now we have several candidates to BRICS. It’s Belarus, Bolivia, Kazakhstan, Cuba, Malaysia, Thailand, Uganda and Uzbekistan.
Now we have the situation when G7 countries make about 30 percent of global product and countries of BRICS about 37. So more than G7. It is very important that cooperation of BRICS countries is aimed at improving of living standards of our population. So we really do increase the level of life of our people.
And BRICS has several dimensions. It’s politics and security. It’s economic and finance. It’s cultural science, human contacts. And let’s take an example. scientific dimension to fight dangerous disease. There is a special medical journal published by BRICS countries in which doctors, scientists, researchers and students may suggest their own fresh ideas. So it’s a very good source of communication.
So it means that cooperation within BRICS countries is going deep into day-to-day life of our countries. And of course, the more countries cooperate between each other, the better our relations, the better we know each other, and more we can achieve by our joint forces.
Christian Pavón: Do you think that BRICS will help to mitigate sanctions from the Western world? Do you think that’s a good tool for these countries to stand united, so to speak?
Sergej Beljajev: Well, of course, when the countries stay united, they can better manage with different problems. But, you know, sanctions is one issue, international cooperation another, because, well, for example, Iran, for many years, is living under sanctions.
Russia also is acquainted to sanctions. We had a lot of sanctions even during the Soviet period of time. And we have an experience when, for example, the United States made sanctions against the Soviet Union, because, well, the Jewish people were not allowed to go from the Soviet Union to Israel. Usually, people do not think about this, but our country, was it called the Soviet Union, or is it the Russian Federation nowadays?
We have a great experience of living under restrictions. And at the same time, we have our own internal market. We have our own industry that received even more possibilities now when European companies left Russia, and we have lived under sanctions. Then we have a great cooperation with Asia, Africa, late in America.
So the world is not restricted only to Europe or United States. The case is that even, well, in the future, if we will speak about the possible normalization of relations between Russia and Europe, the world is changing.
Christian Pavón: Next question is about, I have to ask this question because it’s often asked by the Swedish media, and I have to put it forward. Is there any risk for a military invasion of Sweden by Russia?
Sergej Beljajev: Thank you for this question. No. Russia has no intention to attack Sweden, or to win away Sweden. The risk is that there might be some conflict between Russia and NATO. and you know that NATO is considering Russia as a main threat and actually is developing its military capacity against Russia.
We are not going to oppose NATO or its member states but we have to take this into account and of course our military people should think about possibilities to maintain security of our country.
The main problem is that today if yesterday Sweden decided its politics by itself and whether to be in conflict or not to be in conflict whether it’s political or military it’s one of the main one of the crucial decisions of every state.
Now this decision will not be made only by Swedish authorities it will be made by NATO and Sweden as a member state in all cases will be in and this is I suppose one of the main threats we can see now in the European dimension not only speaking about Sweden but about the situation in the northern Europe and Europe as well.
Christian Pavón: I’ve also read from official NATO sources that in an event of a war not like necessarily a direct war between Sweden and Russia or some other country but in a large NATO war with any potential adversary NATO could have the power to be in charge of the Swedish parliament so they have we have given them a lot of power that perhaps was what you call a bit rash to do that.
Sergej Beljajev: Well it was your decision.
Christian Pavón: Yeah, not mine fortunately.
Sergej Beljajev: Yeah well I do understand it’s your country’s decision and of course every country every nation has right to decide freely and openly about its security policy but at the same time well it’s the same how it is in life you are free to do whatever you want but at the same time you should not increase your security on behalf of the others and you should not well offense other people or states but increasing your security.
By doing what you want you should understand the consequences and you should understand that your freedom actually is limited at the stage when it is it is damaging the freedom of the others so it is a society within the country or an international society you have to take into account all participants all actors if you want that it will be stable otherwise it will be a wild world where the rule of the strongest will take part.
Christian Pavón: Do you think that Trump will his administration will help ease the relationships between NATO and other countries or will it worsen them? What is your bit of a quick follow-up here?
Sergej Beljajev: Well, the United States is the leading ally within NATO, and I suppose that this situation will continue. As for what will be the dimensions of new American Administration politics, it again depends on them, and let’s see how it will develop. As we can understand, President Trump is taking into account, first of all, interests of his own country, and to what results it will lead, it’s a question for future.
