In a stunning move that has civil libertarians stuttering with disbelief, the U.S. Senate has just passed a bill that effectively ends the Bill of Rights in America and will turn USA into a battleground.
Text: Mike Adams | Also watch this video: The US Constitution is gone
The National Defense Authorization Act is being called the most traitorous act ever witnessed in the Senate, and the language of the bill is cleverly designed to make you think it doesn’t apply to Americans, but toward the end of the bill it essentially says it can apply to Americans “if we want it to.”
| Bill Summary & Status, 112th Congress (2011 – 2012) | S.1867 | Latest Title: National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 | Sponsor: Sen Levin, Carl [MI] (introduced 11/15/2011) | Related Bills: H.R.1540 | Latest Major Action: 12/1/2011 Passed/agreed to in Senate. | Status: Passed Senate with amendments by Yea-Nay. 93 – 7. | Record Vote Number: 218. | Latest Action: 12/1/2011 National Defense Authorization Act | Amendment details |
This bill, passed late last night in a 93-7 vote, declares the entire USA to be a “battleground” upon which U.S. military forces can operate with impunity, overriding Posse Comitatus and granting the military the unchecked power to arrest, detain, interrogate and even assassinate U.S. citizens with impunity.
Even WIRED magazine was outraged at this bill, reporting:
Senate Wants the Military to Lock You Up Without Trial
…the detention mandate to use indefinite military detention in terrorism cases isn’t limited to foreigners. It’s confusing, because two different sections of the bill seem to contradict each other, but in the judgment of the University of Texas’ Robert Chesney — a nonpartisan authority on military detention — “U.S. citizens are included in the grant of detention authority.” Source
The passage of this law is nothing less than an outright declaration of WAR against the American People by the military-connected power elite. If this is signed into law, it will shred the remaining tenants of the Bill of Rights and unleash upon America a total military dictatorship, complete with secret arrests, secret prisons, unlawful interrogations, indefinite detainment without ever being charged with a crime, the torture of Americans and even the “legitimate assassination” of U.S. citizens on right here on American soil!
If you have not yet woken up to the reality of the police state we’ve been warning you about, I hope you realize we are fast running out of time. Once this becomes law, you have no rights whatsoever in America — no due process, no First Amendment speech rights, no right to remain silent, nothing.
Text: Mike Adams
More to read
- Global protests continues, banks will close down, maybe war in Iran
- Fusion Centers crucial for National Defense Authorization Act
- US Congress passed the National Defense Authorization Act
- American Warning from 2008 is really about now 2011-2012
- Paul Craig Roberts comments on National Defense Authorization Act
- Also watch this video: The US Constitution is gone
“US Senate wants the entire USA to be a battleground”
The entire USA is already a battleground, as the United States Northern Command (NorthCom) has the American homeland as theatre of operations. NorthCom was established a new military command early 2002, half a year after the events of September 11th, 2001 :
U.S. Northern Command
http://www.northcom.mil/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Northern_Command
The Pentagon Strategy for Homeland Defense and Civil Support gives some more background on their tasks :
Pentagon Strategy for Homeland Defense and Civil Support
http://www.defense.gov/news/jun2005/d20050630homeland.pdf
“Fear. Mongering.”
No, rather a naive article.
“US Senate wants the entire USA to be a battleground”
The entire USA is already a battleground, as the United States Northern Command (NorthCom) has the American homeland as theatre of operations. NorthCom was established a new military command early 2002, half a year after the events of September 11th, 2001 :
U.S. Northern Command
http://www.northcom.mil/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Northern_Command
The Pentagon Strategy for Homeland Defense and Civil Support gives some more background on their tasks :
Pentagon Strategy for Homeland Defense and Civil Support
http://www.defense.gov/news/jun2005/d20050630homeland.pdf
“Fear. Mongering.”
No, rather a naive article.
None of us true Americans[of both north and south] can allow this, nor can Chinese or Russian or any other country founded upon the ideals of rebels and revolutionaries. This is exactly what the monarchies of Europe attempted to do to America so many years ago, and guess what? We won! I shall leave you all with this lone quote…
“They may come for our blood, BUT THEY SHALL DROWN IN THEIR OWN!
OURAAHHH!”
None of us true Americans[of both north and south] can allow this, nor can Chinese or Russian or any other country founded upon the ideals of rebels and revolutionaries. This is exactly what the monarchies of Europe attempted to do to America so many years ago, and guess what? We won! I shall leave you all with this lone quote…
“They may come for our blood, BUT THEY SHALL DROWN IN THEIR OWN!
OURAAHHH!”
again, not to add even more pointless babel, but i may have said something earlier on, i cant find it now, about military soldiers actually doing this.
Firstly, i am proud in many (not all) ways our American military serves. I am also glad service members are discussing this as well.
secondly what i said earlier may have been misinterpreted, what i meant to say is that it is possible, for a selected group of FBI or CIA or any of those other acronyms, who have served in military, to be made into a section of home land security that could do as the article says.
thirdly, i am more than proud and glad that our American service members would not shoot at an American civilian.
and i ask, though beyond unlikely that it seems, that if the president or some general would ask you to shoot American citizens, that you remember that you are our protectors. and you protect the rights of the continuation, the bill of rights, and all bills there in. use your mind, not your gun.
again, not to add even more pointless babel, but i may have said something earlier on, i cant find it now, about military soldiers actually doing this.
Firstly, i am proud in many (not all) ways our American military serves. I am also glad service members are discussing this as well.
secondly what i said earlier may have been misinterpreted, what i meant to say is that it is possible, for a selected group of FBI or CIA or any of those other acronyms, who have served in military, to be made into a section of home land security that could do as the article says.
thirdly, i am more than proud and glad that our American service members would not shoot at an American civilian.
and i ask, though beyond unlikely that it seems, that if the president or some general would ask you to shoot American citizens, that you remember that you are our protectors. and you protect the rights of the continuation, the bill of rights, and all bills there in. use your mind, not your gun.
Wow, I never believed in it but the New World Order theory is sounding more real every day.
Wow, I never believed in it but the New World Order theory is sounding more real every day.
I am in the military. It would be against the Law of Armed Conflict to shoot at any unarmed persons.
This is true, it hasn’t changed since my days in Desert Shield and Desert Storm or since its inception in 1974 and likely never will. However, the bigger concern is that this bill allows for indefinite detainment without due process. Though morally wrong, this bill could be argued to allow the executive branch (through order of the Commander-in-Chief) to pick up whoever they want and lock them away practically without a paper trail simply by saying that they were suspected of terrorist activities. In essence, immediately terminating all of that persons rights as though they never had any. This is the very same basis used to incarcerate political prisoners in other countries. This bill is the single most horrible thing that Obama has done in office, and has potential of being that for which he is most remembered.
Actually OBAMA didn’t do this. Congress did. Obama had no helping hand in passing this bill whatsoever. Remember, By the system of checks and balances, the judicial and legislative branch can pass their own bill, and the executive can veto it. I don’t think something like this would happen without something bigger going on behind the scenes. You think Obama is scared of retaliation if he does veto it?
I am in the military. It would be against the Law of Armed Conflict to shoot at any unarmed persons.
This is true, it hasn’t changed since my days in Desert Shield and Desert Storm or since its inception in 1974 and likely never will. However, the bigger concern is that this bill allows for indefinite detainment without due process. Though morally wrong, this bill could be argued to allow the executive branch (through order of the Commander-in-Chief) to pick up whoever they want and lock them away practically without a paper trail simply by saying that they were suspected of terrorist activities. In essence, immediately terminating all of that persons rights as though they never had any. This is the very same basis used to incarcerate political prisoners in other countries. This bill is the single most horrible thing that Obama has done in office, and has potential of being that for which he is most remembered.
Actually OBAMA didn’t do this. Congress did. Obama had no helping hand in passing this bill whatsoever. Remember, By the system of checks and balances, the judicial and legislative branch can pass their own bill, and the executive can veto it. I don’t think something like this would happen without something bigger going on behind the scenes. You think Obama is scared of retaliation if he does veto it?
So what from the fact that I can not even write properly in English? And whoever of you know Polish or Czech or German? Do not judge me on the grammar …
Well, I may not be fluent. Ale mogę się przez …
You know what I think? I think that europe should introduce entry visas for Americans. If you American citizens, you agree to the fact that foreigners so treat your government, then I think you xenophobe. So it think germany during Adolf Hitler’s government, they were stunned by hate and rage and insecurity that they been told, burned and murdered ksążki Jews and other citizens.
I am a Pole, I do not wish your rights in europe arrest me for your army, without a reason. Because you and your government to agree to it.
This is not a war on terror, this is not a holy inquisition. Your government conducts a war with the inhabitants of the earth. This is what your government is doing is sick and is in violation of any rights of free citizenship.
Rejoice that this Act does not apply to U.S. citizens, but I assure you that it will not last long, not perception will be introduced an amendment to this Act, and the justification is the same as always. “NATIONAL SECURITY” A whose specific? If the nation is arrested? …
Have a nice day and more Coca-Cola.
So what from the fact that I can not even write properly in English? And whoever of you know Polish or Czech or German? Do not judge me on the grammar …
Well, I may not be fluent. Ale mogę się przez …
You know what I think? I think that europe should introduce entry visas for Americans. If you American citizens, you agree to the fact that foreigners so treat your government, then I think you xenophobe. So it think germany during Adolf Hitler’s government, they were stunned by hate and rage and insecurity that they been told, burned and murdered ksążki Jews and other citizens.
I am a Pole, I do not wish your rights in europe arrest me for your army, without a reason. Because you and your government to agree to it.
This is not a war on terror, this is not a holy inquisition. Your government conducts a war with the inhabitants of the earth. This is what your government is doing is sick and is in violation of any rights of free citizenship.
Rejoice that this Act does not apply to U.S. citizens, but I assure you that it will not last long, not perception will be introduced an amendment to this Act, and the justification is the same as always. “NATIONAL SECURITY” A whose specific? If the nation is arrested? …
Have a nice day and more Coca-Cola.
There is a civil war coming not just in the US but all over the world! Everyone who works to enslave people will regret being alive! Now,everyone who votes in favor of these laws should be executed for treason!
Revenge is on its way!
There is a civil war coming not just in the US but all over the world! Everyone who works to enslave people will regret being alive! Now,everyone who votes in favor of these laws should be executed for treason!
Revenge is on its way!
“If this is signed into law, it will shred the remaining tenants of the Bill of Rights” I think they meant tenets! Unless there are somehow people who live in the Bill of Rights.
Does Dan Brown know about this?! He ought to secure the novelization rights to this story before David Ickes makes up his own mind about and once again corners the “I <3 Mett Bellamy" market. It would be about a grizzled veteran Starbucks employee who has sex about 89 times a minute, who accidently stumbles upon a cabal of muslim communist space lizards (with their army of were-cyborg rock stars you all thought died aged 27… EXCEPT REALLY THEY DIDN'T DUN DUN DUUUNNNN) hell bent on wotrld domination. He teams up with Rage Against The Machine and Brian Blessed and together they attempt to put a stop to the N.W.O.'s insidious machinations by kicking it in the face and bumming its corpse into a mangled unrecognizable pulp. He could call it 'TRUTH RAPE: The Truthening', a powerful and chilling metaphor for the current political landscape… I'd buy it.
“If this is signed into law, it will shred the remaining tenants of the Bill of Rights” I think they meant tenets! Unless there are somehow people who live in the Bill of Rights.
Does Dan Brown know about this?! He ought to secure the novelization rights to this story before David Ickes makes up his own mind about and once again corners the “I <3 Mett Bellamy" market. It would be about a grizzled veteran Starbucks employee who has sex about 89 times a minute, who accidently stumbles upon a cabal of muslim communist space lizards (with their army of were-cyborg rock stars you all thought died aged 27… EXCEPT REALLY THEY DIDN'T DUN DUN DUUUNNNN) hell bent on wotrld domination. He teams up with Rage Against The Machine and Brian Blessed and together they attempt to put a stop to the N.W.O.'s insidious machinations by kicking it in the face and bumming its corpse into a mangled unrecognizable pulp. He could call it 'TRUTH RAPE: The Truthening', a powerful and chilling metaphor for the current political landscape… I'd buy it.
to all those who cite
(B-1)
UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
need to read 1031 first.
meaning of this quoted passage is – “they can but are not required to detain us citizens”
Just to clarify, I am not in any association with the group “Anonymous”, I just don’t want to be known
The bill that just passed in congress is, in itself, the complete and total annihilation of our constitutional rights, some people in the military MIGHT accept this and comply with it because the military has people in it who just want to do nothing but kill. I know that sounds ignorant but thats my belief. If the 93 voters of that bill who were for it had seen the end of the bill and really thought about, it would have been a whole lot different. All people should stand up and be against this horrible bill. I might be over exaggerating this, but if this happened, ANY military member could kill anybody in America, even a newly born child. This bill gives NO limits what so ever. Anything can be done by the military.
to all those who cite
(B-1)
UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
need to read 1031 first.
meaning of this quoted passage is – “they can but are not required to detain us citizens”
Just to clarify, I am not in any association with the group “Anonymous”, I just don’t want to be known
The bill that just passed in congress is, in itself, the complete and total annihilation of our constitutional rights, some people in the military MIGHT accept this and comply with it because the military has people in it who just want to do nothing but kill. I know that sounds ignorant but thats my belief. If the 93 voters of that bill who were for it had seen the end of the bill and really thought about, it would have been a whole lot different. All people should stand up and be against this horrible bill. I might be over exaggerating this, but if this happened, ANY military member could kill anybody in America, even a newly born child. This bill gives NO limits what so ever. Anything can be done by the military.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
The only way to clean our government is to VOTE first.
And really find out who it is you are voting for beforehand.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/
The only way to clean our government is to VOTE first.
And really find out who it is you are voting for beforehand.
Okay many of you will probably call me an idiot for even Bringing up a videogame in this board but, seriously, look up information on the game Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six: Patriots. You will get me once you read the overall situation in it.
Ok, did the research… Not enough info to be sure, but yup, sounds like.
In regards to this: Please help voice your mind and sign the petition to hopefully stop this ACT in it’s tracks…
http://www.change.org/petitions/the-president-of-the-united-states-change-wording-to-not-affect-our-bill-of-rights-and-constitutional-rights
@ Faye Marie Constantino: What you fail to see is that elsewhere in the bill they have sneakily snuck in language that declares it CAN apply to American citizens.
And as to “Covered Persons” — further language so vaguely articulated that it could apply to anyone. Anyone SUSPECTED, not proven, to be involved in “terrorist” activities, as determined by the DHS which could mean anything, up for interpretation.
oh, and a P.S. this specifically applies to a certain group of People, not just anyone: SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.
(a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-
(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) who is captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) in military custody pending disposition under the law of war.
(2) COVERED PERSONS- The requirement in paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose detention is authorized under section 1031 who is determined–
(A) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an associated force that acts in coordination with or pursuant to the direction of al-Qaeda; and
(B) to have participated in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.
(3) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR- For purposes of this subsection, the disposition of a person under the law of war has the meaning given in section 1031(c), except that no transfer otherwise described in paragraph (4) of that section shall be made unless consistent with the requirements of section 1033.
(4) WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY- The Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States. It’s about people who is captured during hostilities and who attacked or attempted to attack the United States, specifically supporting al-Qaeda etc. Please read some more of this document as it also bans sexual assault on children by the military personnel among other atrocities.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c112:1:./temp/~c112jviacx:e458336: Read the applicable part of the bill, it wasn’t easy to find if you click on the links but here’s the important part: (b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.
Sorry to tell you this Faye, but all of it is the important part. This bill will be subject to interpretation. And this can easily be argued away with the “covered persons” clause.
Okay many of you will probably call me an idiot for even Bringing up a videogame in this board but, seriously, look up information on the game Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six: Patriots. You will get me once you read the overall situation in it.
Ok, did the research… Not enough info to be sure, but yup, sounds like.
We r the frogs in the pot slowly being boiled alive by a simmering flame on the stove…
In regards to this: Please help voice your mind and sign the petition to hopefully stop this ACT in it’s tracks…
http://www.change.org/petitions/the-president-of-the-united-states-change-wording-to-not-affect-our-bill-of-rights-and-constitutional-rights
@ Faye Marie Constantino: What you fail to see is that elsewhere in the bill they have sneakily snuck in language that declares it CAN apply to American citizens.
And as to “Covered Persons” — further language so vaguely articulated that it could apply to anyone. Anyone SUSPECTED, not proven, to be involved in “terrorist” activities, as determined by the DHS which could mean anything, up for interpretation.
oh, and a P.S. this specifically applies to a certain group of People, not just anyone: SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.
(a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-
(1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) who is captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) in military custody pending disposition under the law of war.
(2) COVERED PERSONS- The requirement in paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose detention is authorized under section 1031 who is determined–
(A) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an associated force that acts in coordination with or pursuant to the direction of al-Qaeda; and
(B) to have participated in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.
(3) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR- For purposes of this subsection, the disposition of a person under the law of war has the meaning given in section 1031(c), except that no transfer otherwise described in paragraph (4) of that section shall be made unless consistent with the requirements of section 1033.
(4) WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY- The Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States. It’s about people who is captured during hostilities and who attacked or attempted to attack the United States, specifically supporting al-Qaeda etc. Please read some more of this document as it also bans sexual assault on children by the military personnel among other atrocities.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c112:1:./temp/~c112jviacx:e458336: Read the applicable part of the bill, it wasn’t easy to find if you click on the links but here’s the important part: (b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.
Sorry to tell you this Faye, but all of it is the important part. This bill will be subject to interpretation. And this can easily be argued away with the “covered persons” clause.
We r the frogs in the pot slowly being boiled alive by a simmering flame on the stove…
Hmm, well well this is a problem wouldn’t you say? I’ve simply given up on this little country of ours but I will say this. I do respect the military but if push comes to shove better be careful might piss off the wrong people (Not me I simply don’t care)… Meh, next Civil War or would you call it the next Revolutionary War? Either way both wars was about freedom and power (Don’t you dare get started on the slave crap) oh well best of luck to you America
Brent,
Trust me. Military members would not contribute to any such acts. When was the last time you even saw the national guard working in a defense type role in America? The military’s main involvement at home involves aid during disasters. I see more cops out there during these protests in armor than I see guys in camo.
But I do agree with you, a civil war isn’t but years away. The path we are on, it could be sooner. Unless we do a complete 180, the simple lack of cohesion in this country will tear us apart; let alone the debt and poor economy.
Military personnel do as they are told by their superiors as long as they do not believe they are going against their post. And at that, sometimes they do as they are told even if they know that it goes against their post. If I had a nickel for every time that an order has been given and followed that violated standing orders, I would be hobnobbing with Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Oprah.
Where in the bill does it says this I’ve read it do t see it. Now I did see it I. The 2007 bill the. It was overturned. But in reality the patriot act and the war on drugs did that anyway.
Yep I am so glad my family fought and died for their freedom, to later have it yanked from under them. I might as well pack my family and go back over to Europe were we had originated from. With every president and every rich, retarded, no good, egotistical politian out there, the US is going to hell in a hand basket. Give it another 5-10 years and we wont be any better than third world countries who are in poverty and dying from starvation. In no time other countries will be seeing us on those ” send only $0.50 and day to save a child” ads. I find it funny that when something bad happens in another country (i.e Japan and the carribean) the US is the first to help and send money. But where are the other countries to return the favor to us when it happens, no one was there to help us when 9/11 happened I didn’t see or hear about other countries coming to our aid or sending us money, so why the hell should we help other countries. When we (the US) needs it more. Charity starts at home, before helping everyone else we need to help ourselves first. We need to stand together and hold our ground against the Senate, House of Rep., Congress and the President himself and say ” Stop F*&$king up our country!” what they are doing isn’t helping anyone but themselves. How are we benifiting from having our writes taken from us. They are already limiting our freedom to speech and religion and they are trying to take away the right to petition the goverment and to assemble. Soon it’ll be taking away the Freedom to press and to bear arms. The goverment has completely gone away with the 10th Amendment which states “Limits the powers of the federal government to those delegated to it by the Constitution”. But no matter how much we complain and hate the goverment there’s nothing that we can do except to sit back and watch the S**t hit the fan, or move out of the country and come reclaime it again for ourselves in a few hundred years after the goverment has fallen and the people have to live off the earth once more.
Bravo! I agree completely. Charity starts at home.
There are so many people worried about providing aid to others and our poor neighbors down south in need. WE ARE IN NEED! We can’t help others unless we help ourselves! I am all for giving aid and helping people out, but you are right….we need to stop for a moment, catch our bearings, and start producing again before we can rush to everyone’s aid.
You are also right on about never getting help from others. We were the first to offer help to Japan after the disaster; who ever offered us aid after 9/11? How many of our allies refused to help us catch Bin Laden? It seems everyone else puts on a smile and makes promises of helping each other out but never follows through. America needs to get that message too.
As far as our politicians go that are running America into the ground, we also have some select people who are just to blame. There are so many collecting free checks and at the same time asking for more. They are the same ones who protest the border patrol. They receive other’s money and then want them to give out their money to people who aren’t even registered. We lose BILLIONS a year in income taxes from under the table illegal workers. They also take millions of jobs from those who are on unemployment. With the only argument, “we do the jobs they don’t like.” Not so….job placement agencies could easily fill those positions and if someone on unemployment were to say, “No. I don’t want to do that.” Then the reply is, “Ok. That is just fine. But there is a job available that you have turned down. Your unemployment now ends today. Have a nice day!” It’s as simple as that. We WORK to earn what we receive.
I know many have a hard time finding jobs but I have not had many problems. Does it take some more searching than it did a decade ago? You bet. But it is not impossible. And I am the type of person who will be living out of their car before asking for free money from someone else. It’s just too bad not many others feel the same. Those who are collecting, making babies for checks, and using tax dollars are just as much to blame as the poor leadership we have right now. We need changes at the top and changes at the bottom. Because it is us in the middle who are hurting more than anyone else.
Hmm, well well this is a problem wouldn’t you say? I’ve simply given up on this little country of ours but I will say this. I do respect the military but if push comes to shove better be careful might piss off the wrong people (Not me I simply don’t care)… Meh, next Civil War or would you call it the next Revolutionary War? Either way both wars was about freedom and power (Don’t you dare get started on the slave crap) oh well best of luck to you America
Brent,
Trust me. Military members would not contribute to any such acts. When was the last time you even saw the national guard working in a defense type role in America? The military’s main involvement at home involves aid during disasters. I see more cops out there during these protests in armor than I see guys in camo.
But I do agree with you, a civil war isn’t but years away. The path we are on, it could be sooner. Unless we do a complete 180, the simple lack of cohesion in this country will tear us apart; let alone the debt and poor economy.
Military personnel do as they are told by their superiors as long as they do not believe they are going against their post. And at that, sometimes they do as they are told even if they know that it goes against their post. If I had a nickel for every time that an order has been given and followed that violated standing orders, I would be hobnobbing with Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Oprah.
what makes you tards think that they need a bill to lock you up or torture you lmfao what you think your free or something that’s funny we are already slaves and you tarts don’t even know it that’s the greatest part hahahaha
What is a tart?
It is like a personal-sized pie. Really tasty with tea.
Oh, btw, that definition was for the benefit of ordinary. I am kinda betting that you actually already knew.
I’m 16 years old in high school and yet I can see things you can’t were suppose to have freedom and rights. Well they’re being taken away by our own people we need to get rid of electoral collages they throw in votes for who they want NOT for who the state picked its about time the heart of America stood up its people not government yes we have check and balance but that only works if we make it. “By the People for the people !” We need new leaders people who we know and can trust. There are so very few of the good ones left. I think Oboma needs to go as well he isn’t helping us,but hurting us. I love our soldiers all of them, but there has to be a limit… Congress passes this bill it will be the death of the nation all hell will break loose fear is a big thing.
Rebecca,
It’s not that our military has too many people. The military has been down sizing for the last few years. Attrition rates are high as deployments are constant and people are getting tired of seeing their families for 2 months a year.
Many arguments involving DOD is the spending. Spending on the equipment and support that our troops need is very important. But there IS a lot of reckless and unnecessary spending. We can’t completely stop with exploration of new technology (it was the DOD that created the Internet after all) but there are many avenues that we never should have followed, where millions were spent just to have programs die. DOD leadership is at fault for these things and it sickens me. The average US troop gets minimal pay, nothing compared to their civilian counterpart, with little benefits. The way Liberal America is, troops don’t even get the gratitude they once had. Meanwhile, leaders are taking private flights all across the world. Going wherever they feel. Making absurd amounts of money.
My first 4 years in the military netted me an average of $23K a year. I could have very well doubled that working in the civilian world. But it is what we love to do. It’s just sad we now have a terrible reputation and worse leadership. They care little about their personnel and spend more in a quarter than we receive in a year.
I am all for limiting DOD budget. But my only problem is, that I KNOW it will be the hard working troops that hurt the most. Leaders won’t even be touched and they will take away from us to supplement their budgets. It’s not even stipulation, it’s a guarantee. That is why I can’t condone a DOD cut. Because the average troop will take a big hit. It’s one thing to take away extraneous spending but another to take away pay and benefits for those who not only earn them, they desperately NEED them. It’s just too bad our nations power is filled with people who don’t give a shit about their people.
American military did not invent the Internet. Just thought I’d let you know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee
Just thought I would let you know, you are incorrect…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET
The web is really just a subset of internet capability using the http protocol…
The internet really was born in the 50’s and 60’s with DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) leading the way. This is LONG before 1989
Sorry, meant to write the Web. Slightly different.
No prob… Just keepin’ ya honest. 😉
Where in the bill does it says this I’ve read it do t see it. Now I did see it I. The 2007 bill the. It was overturned. But in reality the patriot act and the war on drugs did that anyway.
Yep I am so glad my family fought and died for their freedom, to later have it yanked from under them. I might as well pack my family and go back over to Europe were we had originated from. With every president and every rich, retarded, no good, egotistical politian out there, the US is going to hell in a hand basket. Give it another 5-10 years and we wont be any better than third world countries who are in poverty and dying from starvation. In no time other countries will be seeing us on those ” send only $0.50 and day to save a child” ads. I find it funny that when something bad happens in another country (i.e Japan and the carribean) the US is the first to help and send money. But where are the other countries to return the favor to us when it happens, no one was there to help us when 9/11 happened I didn’t see or hear about other countries coming to our aid or sending us money, so why the hell should we help other countries. When we (the US) needs it more. Charity starts at home, before helping everyone else we need to help ourselves first. We need to stand together and hold our ground against the Senate, House of Rep., Congress and the President himself and say ” Stop F*&$king up our country!” what they are doing isn’t helping anyone but themselves. How are we benifiting from having our writes taken from us. They are already limiting our freedom to speech and religion and they are trying to take away the right to petition the goverment and to assemble. Soon it’ll be taking away the Freedom to press and to bear arms. The goverment has completely gone away with the 10th Amendment which states “Limits the powers of the federal government to those delegated to it by the Constitution”. But no matter how much we complain and hate the goverment there’s nothing that we can do except to sit back and watch the S**t hit the fan, or move out of the country and come reclaime it again for ourselves in a few hundred years after the goverment has fallen and the people have to live off the earth once more.
Bravo! I agree completely. Charity starts at home.
There are so many people worried about providing aid to others and our poor neighbors down south in need. WE ARE IN NEED! We can’t help others unless we help ourselves! I am all for giving aid and helping people out, but you are right….we need to stop for a moment, catch our bearings, and start producing again before we can rush to everyone’s aid.
You are also right on about never getting help from others. We were the first to offer help to Japan after the disaster; who ever offered us aid after 9/11? How many of our allies refused to help us catch Bin Laden? It seems everyone else puts on a smile and makes promises of helping each other out but never follows through. America needs to get that message too.
As far as our politicians go that are running America into the ground, we also have some select people who are just to blame. There are so many collecting free checks and at the same time asking for more. They are the same ones who protest the border patrol. They receive other’s money and then want them to give out their money to people who aren’t even registered. We lose BILLIONS a year in income taxes from under the table illegal workers. They also take millions of jobs from those who are on unemployment. With the only argument, “we do the jobs they don’t like.” Not so….job placement agencies could easily fill those positions and if someone on unemployment were to say, “No. I don’t want to do that.” Then the reply is, “Ok. That is just fine. But there is a job available that you have turned down. Your unemployment now ends today. Have a nice day!” It’s as simple as that. We WORK to earn what we receive.
I know many have a hard time finding jobs but I have not had many problems. Does it take some more searching than it did a decade ago? You bet. But it is not impossible. And I am the type of person who will be living out of their car before asking for free money from someone else. It’s just too bad not many others feel the same. Those who are collecting, making babies for checks, and using tax dollars are just as much to blame as the poor leadership we have right now. We need changes at the top and changes at the bottom. Because it is us in the middle who are hurting more than anyone else.
If you believe this crap. Off yourself.
And you are exactly America’s problem…..you and everyone like you. You disagree with probably 90% of others opinions, just for the sake of disagreeing. And instead of voicing a justification why with articulate input, you say some stupid shit like that.
Go play in traffic, Juilan B…..iatch
I believe this… Possibly because I actually read and pay attention to what my lawmakers are passing in my name.
But, I would much prefer to “Off” you… That should cause a noticeable rise in the overall I.Q. of the planet.
what makes you tards think that they need a bill to lock you up or torture you lmfao what you think your free or something that’s funny we are already slaves and you tarts don’t even know it that’s the greatest part hahahaha
What is a tart?
It is like a personal-sized pie. Really tasty with tea.
Oh, btw, that definition was for the benefit of ordinary. I am kinda betting that you actually already knew.
Leave it up to the media to make something sound worse than it is, nothing like this is ever going to happen. The Senate knows if this were to take place, the country would fall apart.
Funny thing that…
Democracy dies with a whimper… killed by a million paper cuts.
I used to believe that my government would just randomly listen to my phone calls…Then they did.
I used to believe that my government would never use torture…Then they did.
I used to believe that my government would never use propaganda on its own people…Then they did.
I personally am very afraid of all the things that I believe my government would not do…
I’m 16 years old in high school and yet I can see things you can’t were suppose to have freedom and rights. Well they’re being taken away by our own people we need to get rid of electoral collages they throw in votes for who they want NOT for who the state picked its about time the heart of America stood up its people not government yes we have check and balance but that only works if we make it. “By the People for the people !” We need new leaders people who we know and can trust. There are so very few of the good ones left. I think Oboma needs to go as well he isn’t helping us,but hurting us. I love our soldiers all of them, but there has to be a limit… Congress passes this bill it will be the death of the nation all hell will break loose fear is a big thing.
Rebecca,
It’s not that our military has too many people. The military has been down sizing for the last few years. Attrition rates are high as deployments are constant and people are getting tired of seeing their families for 2 months a year.
Many arguments involving DOD is the spending. Spending on the equipment and support that our troops need is very important. But there IS a lot of reckless and unnecessary spending. We can’t completely stop with exploration of new technology (it was the DOD that created the Internet after all) but there are many avenues that we never should have followed, where millions were spent just to have programs die. DOD leadership is at fault for these things and it sickens me. The average US troop gets minimal pay, nothing compared to their civilian counterpart, with little benefits. The way Liberal America is, troops don’t even get the gratitude they once had. Meanwhile, leaders are taking private flights all across the world. Going wherever they feel. Making absurd amounts of money.
My first 4 years in the military netted me an average of $23K a year. I could have very well doubled that working in the civilian world. But it is what we love to do. It’s just sad we now have a terrible reputation and worse leadership. They care little about their personnel and spend more in a quarter than we receive in a year.
I am all for limiting DOD budget. But my only problem is, that I KNOW it will be the hard working troops that hurt the most. Leaders won’t even be touched and they will take away from us to supplement their budgets. It’s not even stipulation, it’s a guarantee. That is why I can’t condone a DOD cut. Because the average troop will take a big hit. It’s one thing to take away extraneous spending but another to take away pay and benefits for those who not only earn them, they desperately NEED them. It’s just too bad our nations power is filled with people who don’t give a shit about their people.
American military did not invent the Internet. Just thought I’d let you know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee
Just thought I would let you know, you are incorrect…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET
The web is really just a subset of internet capability using the http protocol…
The internet really was born in the 50’s and 60’s with DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) leading the way. This is LONG before 1989
Sorry, meant to write the Web. Slightly different.
No prob… Just keepin’ ya honest. 😉
Our rights have long since been taken away, this is them solidifying their power. No matter how we vote on it I can bet that bill will still pass.
If you believe this crap. Off yourself.
And you are exactly America’s problem…..you and everyone like you. You disagree with probably 90% of others opinions, just for the sake of disagreeing. And instead of voicing a justification why with articulate input, you say some stupid shit like that.
Go play in traffic, Juilan B…..iatch
I believe this… Possibly because I actually read and pay attention to what my lawmakers are passing in my name.
But, I would much prefer to “Off” you… That should cause a noticeable rise in the overall I.Q. of the planet.
Much as anything there is a large amount of fear mongering going on however that said it’s still a bad idea. The military is by definition in place to protect the country and it’s government, the police are in place to protect people. Once these lines are blurred providing the military with more authority domestically over it’s own citizens, and no matter what arguments I’ve read the bill does do that, the people then transitively become enemy’s of the state when there is no need for that.
Very well said.
Leave it up to the media to make something sound worse than it is, nothing like this is ever going to happen. The Senate knows if this were to take place, the country would fall apart.
Funny thing that…
Democracy dies with a whimper… killed by a million paper cuts.
I used to believe that my government would just randomly listen to my phone calls…Then they did.
I used to believe that my government would never use torture…Then they did.
I used to believe that my government would never use propaganda on its own people…Then they did.
I personally am very afraid of all the things that I believe my government would not do…
I reckon the Space Lizards did it. It says so in the bible… and in the Twilight books (but only people with magic powers can read that bit)
Tom,
(b) COVERED PERSONS.—A covered person under this section is any person as follows:
(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.
(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.
“Associated forces” and “any person who has committed a belligerent act” or “has directly supported such hosilities in aid of such enemy forces.” Enemy forces are anyone against the US Government. They call us “home grown terrorists” or “domestic terrorists” if we agree with Ron Paul or the Tea Party. Anyone who opposes the government of which they will simply label a “domestic terrorist” at the discression of the President and imprison.
Well, I personally agree that the Tea Party are anti-American and “domestic terrorists”, but they are Americans none-the-less. That said, this bill disgusts me and brings shame to the government and the military.
Our rights have long since been taken away, this is them solidifying their power. No matter how we vote on it I can bet that bill will still pass.
Much as anything there is a large amount of fear mongering going on however that said it’s still a bad idea. The military is by definition in place to protect the country and it’s government, the police are in place to protect people. Once these lines are blurred providing the military with more authority domestically over it’s own citizens, and no matter what arguments I’ve read the bill does do that, the people then transitively become enemy’s of the state when there is no need for that.
Very well said.
I reckon the Space Lizards did it. It says so in the bible… and in the Twilight books (but only people with magic powers can read that bit)
Tom,
(b) COVERED PERSONS.—A covered person under this section is any person as follows:
(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.
(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.
“Associated forces” and “any person who has committed a belligerent act” or “has directly supported such hosilities in aid of such enemy forces.” Enemy forces are anyone against the US Government. They call us “home grown terrorists” or “domestic terrorists” if we agree with Ron Paul or the Tea Party. Anyone who opposes the government of which they will simply label a “domestic terrorist” at the discression of the President and imprison.
Well, I personally agree that the Tea Party are anti-American and “domestic terrorists”, but they are Americans none-the-less. That said, this bill disgusts me and brings shame to the government and the military.
FOR FUCKS SAKE, READ PEOPLE.
SECTION 1032 OF THE BILL:
(B-1)
UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
Yes Tom,
We know… But we also read the conflicting (and much broader) definition of covered person. This section that says it does not extend to citizens of the United States is overshadowed and easily argued to be over-ruled by the covered persons clause.
So, in your words… FOR FUCK SAKE, READ PEOPLE.
And it might help just a little to try to think like a lawyer.
The rights of the americans are being slowly taken away
American started out as a lamb like beast in character but it slowly
Becoming fully beast. People need to read their bible and live for christ second coming.
WE THE PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE ACTION NOW, BEFORE IT SI TOO LATE. THERE ARE MORE OF US AND LESS OF THEM! FUCK THE ILLUMINATI, FUCK N.W.O. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT/HIGHER POWER’ LIES AND CHEATS. FUCK THIS SYSTEM AND WE NEED TO OPEN OUR FUCKING EYES, NOW!
FOR FUCKS SAKE, READ PEOPLE.
SECTION 1032 OF THE BILL:
(B-1)
UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
Yes Tom,
We know… But we also read the conflicting (and much broader) definition of covered person. This section that says it does not extend to citizens of the United States is overshadowed and easily argued to be over-ruled by the covered persons clause.
So, in your words… FOR FUCK SAKE, READ PEOPLE.
And it might help just a little to try to think like a lawyer.
The New World Order is happening, the antichrist is rising to power, though we cannot ID him yet we will be able to very soon.
Jesus is coming soon
If that is true, I really feel sorry for all of those “Christians”.
The rights of the americans are being slowly taken away
American started out as a lamb like beast in character but it slowly
Becoming fully beast. People need to read their bible and live for christ second coming.
The passage of this bill is just a precautionary measure for the upcoming Bluebeam events. If you don’t know what Bluebeam is or how it will change your life, you had better look it up. It is not science fiction. It has been in the planning phase for the last 40 years.
WE THE PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE ACTION NOW, BEFORE IT SI TOO LATE. THERE ARE MORE OF US AND LESS OF THEM! FUCK THE ILLUMINATI, FUCK N.W.O. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT/HIGHER POWER’ LIES AND CHEATS. FUCK THIS SYSTEM AND WE NEED TO OPEN OUR FUCKING EYES, NOW!
The New World Order is happening, the antichrist is rising to power, though we cannot ID him yet we will be able to very soon.
Jesus is coming soon
If that is true, I really feel sorry for all of those “Christians”.
Anthony Diaz, the “I was just following orders” defense and the tendency for group think to override rational decision making say otherwise. But it’s nice you think you would never do something horrific just because you were told to.
Before you get the notion that the military will be running rampant through the streets killing everyone, you have to realize that the military is there for “us” every citizen is being protected by the military. Also every member of the military is an American first, these fears are wrongly based and are actually quite humorous to me. I’m not worried about anything and neither should you, if anything this bill is an improvement, you’ll see what I mean in the future.
FUCK YOU
Fuck you,
You really need to just go play in traffic, run around on a gravel drive way with a gun in your mouth, go OD on drugs, jump off of a tall building, drink poison, and/or many other things to rid us of your presence. Anyone who honestly sits there and giggles to themselves, alone in their mothers basement, writing shit like that on a news board is a god damn loser and should not even breathe.
What do you offer society? I mean really? That is the only bullshit you can come up with? On a thread like this? There are so many political opinions you could voice but instead you write, “Fuck you”. You’re an idiot. You obviously have absolutely no political knowledge what-so-ever and probably have little knowledge about anything else. You are a loser, it is evident by your post. I’m sure you are collecting unemployment or welfare. And if you’re too young, you most likely will. Please do us a favor and rid our society of your filth. You will just leach off of taxpayers money and continue spreading this type of trash like a rampant disease.
To: Fuck you……..FUCK YOU
Wow, much more long-winded, and slightly more eloquent, but apparently just a regurgitation of the comment that you were commenting on… Are you a politician?
As I have said before, the military does as they are told. There is great reason to be worried. The idea that you are not says to me that either a) you are not an American, or b) you are ignorant. This is an example of the terrorists winning. Bit by bit America is stopping to be America. We are doing it to ourselves largely by allowing fear to scare us into giving up our rights in the name of being more safe.
The passage of this bill is just a precautionary measure for the upcoming Bluebeam events. If you don’t know what Bluebeam is or how it will change your life, you had better look it up. It is not science fiction. It has been in the planning phase for the last 40 years.
Anthony Diaz, the “I was just following orders” defense and the tendency for group think to override rational decision making say otherwise. But it’s nice you think you would never do something horrific just because you were told to.
Before you get the notion that the military will be running rampant through the streets killing everyone, you have to realize that the military is there for “us” every citizen is being protected by the military. Also every member of the military is an American first, these fears are wrongly based and are actually quite humorous to me. I’m not worried about anything and neither should you, if anything this bill is an improvement, you’ll see what I mean in the future.
FUCK YOU
Fuck you,
You really need to just go play in traffic, run around on a gravel drive way with a gun in your mouth, go OD on drugs, jump off of a tall building, drink poison, and/or many other things to rid us of your presence. Anyone who honestly sits there and giggles to themselves, alone in their mothers basement, writing shit like that on a news board is a god damn loser and should not even breathe.
What do you offer society? I mean really? That is the only bullshit you can come up with? On a thread like this? There are so many political opinions you could voice but instead you write, “Fuck you”. You’re an idiot. You obviously have absolutely no political knowledge what-so-ever and probably have little knowledge about anything else. You are a loser, it is evident by your post. I’m sure you are collecting unemployment or welfare. And if you’re too young, you most likely will. Please do us a favor and rid our society of your filth. You will just leach off of taxpayers money and continue spreading this type of trash like a rampant disease.
To: Fuck you……..FUCK YOU
Wow, much more long-winded, and slightly more eloquent, but apparently just a regurgitation of the comment that you were commenting on… Are you a politician?
As I have said before, the military does as they are told. There is great reason to be worried. The idea that you are not says to me that either a) you are not an American, or b) you are ignorant. This is an example of the terrorists winning. Bit by bit America is stopping to be America. We are doing it to ourselves largely by allowing fear to scare us into giving up our rights in the name of being more safe.
I cannot speak for anyone else nor can I tell anyone else what to think but I will say this, I have been in the military for over 18 years. I have done 6 combat tours in the Middle East and Afghanistan combined. I have served with every branch of service in some way shape or form in combat. I have seen my friends die in combat and I have seen my friend kill in combat. I believe I can say without any hesitation that if anyone I served with was asked to execute an American who was not guilty of treason or of killing another American….no one I have ever served with would do it. Do not confuse “your” military for a group of assassins who will simply kill without thought. If anything today’s military thinks twice shoots once.
I believe and this is my personal opinion not the opinion of anyone else. But I believe that this bill will allow the military to become more involved in actively protecting good Americans that want a good life her in the United Stated and are not out to hurt other Americans who believe the wars going on in the Middle East are illegal. Think about how many United States citizens have converted in our country and have actively spoke out in threat to other Americans. These are American citizens not people from other countries. These are your neighbors not someone a 100 miles away. That is the purpose of this law…to target those individuals.
Anthony,
I agree with everything in your post and it was well said. Many people are ignorant about the military and act like they are some foreign entity that they never come in contact with. Military members are just like any other person. Depending on where you live, you will pass by some on a daily basis or once every month or two; and have no idea. Because they are no different from any other American. They take family vacations so many of you have probably shared a beach or cruise with them. They live in local neighborhoods. They buy from the same dealerships and grocery stores are you. And just like you, their families are the most important thing in their lives. If America started going crazy and the military was told to start doing some immoral and basically illegal acts, their first thought would be of their families safety and would be by their side protecting them instead of acting out heinous acts.
The sad part is that the rules of engagement are more strict for the military in a combat zone than they are for Cops in America. The military only shoots once they are fired upon. A Cop can shoot you at the sight of a weapon, whether that be a gun, knife, or a frying pan that they felt ‘threatened’ by. I wouldn’t hesitate to think local police forces would enforce more of these type actions than the military would. Military members are trained to LOVE America and hate their enemy. Cops are taught to be suspicious of everyone and act aggressive towards them to show power. You see it every day and it is getting worse all of the time. It’s almost like local police forces WANT to be some sort of special tactical Military operator and try their best to be like them. It’s unnecessary and they start making reckless decisions. My biggest fear is of a cop coming into or by my house and shooting my dog, who I love so much, because my dog was running up to him to start licking him. They are itching to shoot all of the time and use harmless dogs as an excuse; like they’re less of a loss than a human. Very seldom is one of those family friends, that cops have shot, threatening to them. Most of the time they are running up to play. Even if a dog were to attack, they wouldn’t kill on the first bite. I would wait until I got bit before drawing my weapon and shooting……..OK that was way off topic but I really am scared of an overzealous cop shooting my dog. I don’t even know how I would react. I may go to jail for life because my dog is literally my best friend. No one else is as faithful as he is and I just wish I was half the man he thought I was.
But Anthony, 100 miles away isn’t far. That’s the size of a few neighboring cities, not even a state. Your reference was more along the lines of 7,000+ miles away
I cannot speak for anyone else nor can I tell anyone else what to think but I will say this, I have been in the military for over 18 years. I have done 6 combat tours in the Middle East and Afghanistan combined. I have served with every branch of service in some way shape or form in combat. I have seen my friends die in combat and I have seen my friend kill in combat. I believe I can say without any hesitation that if anyone I served with was asked to execute an American who was not guilty of treason or of killing another American….no one I have ever served with would do it. Do not confuse “your” military for a group of assassins who will simply kill without thought. If anything today’s military thinks twice shoots once.
I believe and this is my personal opinion not the opinion of anyone else. But I believe that this bill will allow the military to become more involved in actively protecting good Americans that want a good life her in the United Stated and are not out to hurt other Americans who believe the wars going on in the Middle East are illegal. Think about how many United States citizens have converted in our country and have actively spoke out in threat to other Americans. These are American citizens not people from other countries. These are your neighbors not someone a 100 miles away. That is the purpose of this law…to target those individuals.
Anthony,
I agree with everything in your post and it was well said. Many people are ignorant about the military and act like they are some foreign entity that they never come in contact with. Military members are just like any other person. Depending on where you live, you will pass by some on a daily basis or once every month or two; and have no idea. Because they are no different from any other American. They take family vacations so many of you have probably shared a beach or cruise with them. They live in local neighborhoods. They buy from the same dealerships and grocery stores are you. And just like you, their families are the most important thing in their lives. If America started going crazy and the military was told to start doing some immoral and basically illegal acts, their first thought would be of their families safety and would be by their side protecting them instead of acting out heinous acts.
The sad part is that the rules of engagement are more strict for the military in a combat zone than they are for Cops in America. The military only shoots once they are fired upon. A Cop can shoot you at the sight of a weapon, whether that be a gun, knife, or a frying pan that they felt ‘threatened’ by. I wouldn’t hesitate to think local police forces would enforce more of these type actions than the military would. Military members are trained to LOVE America and hate their enemy. Cops are taught to be suspicious of everyone and act aggressive towards them to show power. You see it every day and it is getting worse all of the time. It’s almost like local police forces WANT to be some sort of special tactical Military operator and try their best to be like them. It’s unnecessary and they start making reckless decisions. My biggest fear is of a cop coming into or by my house and shooting my dog, who I love so much, because my dog was running up to him to start licking him. They are itching to shoot all of the time and use harmless dogs as an excuse; like they’re less of a loss than a human. Very seldom is one of those family friends, that cops have shot, threatening to them. Most of the time they are running up to play. Even if a dog were to attack, they wouldn’t kill on the first bite. I would wait until I got bit before drawing my weapon and shooting……..OK that was way off topic but I really am scared of an overzealous cop shooting my dog. I don’t even know how I would react. I may go to jail for life because my dog is literally my best friend. No one else is as faithful as he is and I just wish I was half the man he thought I was.
But Anthony, 100 miles away isn’t far. That’s the size of a few neighboring cities, not even a state. Your reference was more along the lines of 7,000+ miles away
If you are taking this seriously, WITHOUT, looking into, investigating on your own then go back under your rock. With that being said, your rights as an American have slowly been changed and in some cases entirely eliminated. If that surprises you go back under your rock. If President Dumbass Bush did his job when 9/11 happened the Towers would still be standing. How many times do you have to say “all I want to do is fly the plane, not take off or land just fly” before doing something? Also, remember HIS father the first Bush said that we were coming into a New World Order, welcome. We are here and have been here for long time.
There is no need to get so upset over this. There is no need to worry. The day that the military starts shooting people is the day that we can start talking like this and fighting back but until then we need to have faith in our government and elect the right people who will revise these laws if there are any flaws to them. We also need to read the actual information instead of getting it from a “news” source.
You need to wake up fast. Do not have faith in your government, because it is not for the people. It only serves the few in the elite. It is a ruthless machine that cares about money, not the people, sadly.
The longer we wait to act the less time we have to make changes the time is now the people need to unite because the government is no longer looking out for their people they’re only looking out for them selves they crave power and power only breeds destruction and fear in those who get in the way of the people who hunger for it, when individuals optain power they are consumed by it power should be controlled by the people as a whole not by 1 man or a group of men who only seek power for there own gain but! Ask yourself what are you to your government? what power do you have over them & power they have over you? Open your mind!
Well, since I disagree with their policies, I apparently could be considered their enemy. Forget that I am an American citizen. Forget that I believe in due process… Actually, don’t forget that. Don’t EVER forget that. Due process (or lack thereof) is EXACTLY why this sickens me.
If you are taking this seriously, WITHOUT, looking into, investigating on your own then go back under your rock. With that being said, your rights as an American have slowly been changed and in some cases entirely eliminated. If that surprises you go back under your rock. If President Dumbass Bush did his job when 9/11 happened the Towers would still be standing. How many times do you have to say “all I want to do is fly the plane, not take off or land just fly” before doing something? Also, remember HIS father the first Bush said that we were coming into a New World Order, welcome. We are here and have been here for long time.
“Mostly”, Rick. That’s the key word. Did you read these sections?
Subtitle C—Intelligence Matters
Sec. 921. Expansion of authority for exchanges of mapping, charting, and geo-
detic data to include nongovernmental organizations and aca-
demic institutions.
Sec. 922. Facilities for intelligence collection or special operations activities
abroad.
Sec. 923. Ozone Widget Framework.
Sec. 924. Plan for incorporation of enterprise query and correlation capability
into the Defense Intelligence Information Enterprise.
Subtitle D—Cybersecurity Matters
Sec. 931. Strategy to acquire capabilities to detect previously unknown cyber
attacks.
Sec. 932. Program in support of Department of Defense policy on sustaining
and expanding information sharing.
The sad thing here is that barely any of you read the bill. It’s honestly mostly budgeting and the normal military guidelines.
Well, way to go US!! I wonder; does this bill that our “Government” is trying to pass limited to just us “po” folks and old people ??? Or does include even the wealthiest citizens too? Further more, while I am at it; WTFs next? Everybody and Anybody that has any common sense left watch your back, you never know “Who” is doing what now a days.Makes you think that you should watch what you write on the computer or say out loud in public, Ohhhhhhhhhh wait, I am on the computer, that’s right come get me guys. When it comes down to it I have only my father to answer to. In all I’m not shakin’ in my shoes and they will never see me sweat!
There is no need to get so upset over this. There is no need to worry. The day that the military starts shooting people is the day that we can start talking like this and fighting back but until then we need to have faith in our government and elect the right people who will revise these laws if there are any flaws to them. We also need to read the actual information instead of getting it from a “news” source.
You need to wake up fast. Do not have faith in your government, because it is not for the people. It only serves the few in the elite. It is a ruthless machine that cares about money, not the people, sadly.
The longer we wait to act the less time we have to make changes the time is now the people need to unite because the government is no longer looking out for their people they’re only looking out for them selves they crave power and power only breeds destruction and fear in those who get in the way of the people who hunger for it, when individuals optain power they are consumed by it power should be controlled by the people as a whole not by 1 man or a group of men who only seek power for there own gain but! Ask yourself what are you to your government? what power do you have over them & power they have over you? Open your mind!
Well, since I disagree with their policies, I apparently could be considered their enemy. Forget that I am an American citizen. Forget that I believe in due process… Actually, don’t forget that. Don’t EVER forget that. Due process (or lack thereof) is EXACTLY why this sickens me.
wow – some of you have been hitting the propagandad pipe HARD.
bit of advice for those of you making political rants… If you come across as an illiterate fuck who can’t even be bothered to spell check – no one will take you seriously.
The back-woods thinking some of you are showing is pretty sad.
“If you come across as an illiterate fuck who can’t even be bothered to spell check – no one will take you seriously.”
does that count for the propagandad pipe, too?
i was judged on my grammer earlier wtf america is that what its all about to judge hope you like being judged in a cell and ass rapped im leaving god help us all
It’s because you logged on here, Kyle, and began whining about how you can’t pay your bills but weren’t even articulate enough to make any sense. Do you think you are the only one with bills? No one on here complains about bills, it’s a given. Some complain about jobs, others complain about rights; political things. Bills are not politics; they’re responsibilities. Yes the poor economy affects your bills but basically it was like saying, “I looked up at the sky today and it was blue. The sky was blue!” ….Except with terrible grammer
Yes, we know. We ALL know.
But in all seriousness….really learn how to write, man. For an 18 year old….that’s bad.
I do love, however, when you try to sound all moral in the beginning of your post and then show your true immature 18 year old colors when you start talking about ass rape.
Nicely done Cryle
I hope this wakes you up to the message of Ron Paul. The only real defender of the Constitution.
thats cool come and get me then.
+1
I am right there with you
Bullshit. They can have you elect any puppet they want, why would they needs dictatorship? Really, you people fell for the emptiest of promises. “Hope and chane”, come on these are place holders not even complete slogans.
“we need something that signifies hope, you know to convey the people voting for our candidate will bring change”
“eh, what about ‘hope and change’ ”
“don’t be an idiot”
“no aim serious, people have an attention span of a few seconds, they’ve been dumbed down sufficiantly by mass media for this to work. We should try.”
“you know son, you may be on to something…”
“Mostly”, Rick. That’s the key word. Did you read these sections?
Subtitle C—Intelligence Matters
Sec. 921. Expansion of authority for exchanges of mapping, charting, and geo-
detic data to include nongovernmental organizations and aca-
demic institutions.
Sec. 922. Facilities for intelligence collection or special operations activities
abroad.
Sec. 923. Ozone Widget Framework.
Sec. 924. Plan for incorporation of enterprise query and correlation capability
into the Defense Intelligence Information Enterprise.
Subtitle D—Cybersecurity Matters
Sec. 931. Strategy to acquire capabilities to detect previously unknown cyber
attacks.
Sec. 932. Program in support of Department of Defense policy on sustaining
and expanding information sharing.
The sad thing here is that barely any of you read the bill. It’s honestly mostly budgeting and the normal military guidelines.
it’s soooo boring to keep reading how this is Obama’s doing! one really does not have to step back too far to really see the big picture here, and it’s not any one person or any one party doing this. you honestly think that once Obama is out of office, everything will return to freewheeling good times and freedom and jobs for all? anyone that believes that has to be so utterly moronic that they WILL NOT wake up until they themselves are being carted off to a prison during a Republican’s term in office!
it’s really terribly sad… BUT, this is the exact reason that this stuff is happening now and why it will not stop: because there are still a lot of people that are convinced that their side is better! Sadly juvenile perspective!! well, I got news for you: the Controllers are in both parties and NO parties.
It’s not that that the current state of America was started by Obama. We started hurting years ago when Clinton send major mfg companies overseas. Then Bush set us up for failure with his wonderful presidency. However, Bush set it up….Obama ran us straight into the ground.
No one argues that as soon as Obama is gone, things will be better. It’s the fact that even after Bush’s shitty job, he has put MORE debt and spent MORE money his first term than Bush did in 2.
As far as jobs go, that should have been Obama’s greatest focus during his presidency. He has not created any jobs for anyone. The final nail in the coffin for me is that he not only hasn’t created jobs, he is trying to hurt the job market even more by selling out our country by promising illegals amnesty all for votes. It’s extremely selfish. Both party’s political news commentators have said, Obama KNOWS he is not a good President for America and is not very popular. Because of this, he is scheming for the Hispanic vote. He is literally selling us out just so he can be president again. Even though he knows, we know, and he knows we know that he is not a good economist nor has any good foreign policies. He passed over the drilling for oil which would have brought in Billions to America and instead tried to push his Go Green trash.
It has been said and might be true, he is one of the US worst presidents ever.
Well, way to go US!! I wonder; does this bill that our “Government” is trying to pass limited to just us “po” folks and old people ??? Or does include even the wealthiest citizens too? Further more, while I am at it; WTFs next? Everybody and Anybody that has any common sense left watch your back, you never know “Who” is doing what now a days.Makes you think that you should watch what you write on the computer or say out loud in public, Ohhhhhhhhhh wait, I am on the computer, that’s right come get me guys. When it comes down to it I have only my father to answer to. In all I’m not shakin’ in my shoes and they will never see me sweat!
I think that anyone whom does not inform themselves regarding this matter by actually reading the 926 pages of this bill should realize that not only is it our right to be informed, it is our RESPONSIBILITY to be informed. Don’t just be lazy and let someone else do the interpreting for you, actually take the time to at least read the section titles (i.e. table of contents) in order to narrow your search, find the section you think contains pertinent information, open another tab with dictionary.com on it to ensure your translation of the legal jargon is accurate, and ensure the information has been interpreted correctly on your own. The saddest thing we can do as citizens with the right to access this kind of information is become blinded sheep following a Shepard who incorrectly interprets this information for us.
wow – some of you have been hitting the propagandad pipe HARD.
bit of advice for those of you making political rants… If you come across as an illiterate fuck who can’t even be bothered to spell check – no one will take you seriously.
The back-woods thinking some of you are showing is pretty sad.
“If you come across as an illiterate fuck who can’t even be bothered to spell check – no one will take you seriously.”
does that count for the propagandad pipe, too?
i was judged on my grammer earlier wtf america is that what its all about to judge hope you like being judged in a cell and ass rapped im leaving god help us all
It’s because you logged on here, Kyle, and began whining about how you can’t pay your bills but weren’t even articulate enough to make any sense. Do you think you are the only one with bills? No one on here complains about bills, it’s a given. Some complain about jobs, others complain about rights; political things. Bills are not politics; they’re responsibilities. Yes the poor economy affects your bills but basically it was like saying, “I looked up at the sky today and it was blue. The sky was blue!” ….Except with terrible grammer
Yes, we know. We ALL know.
But in all seriousness….really learn how to write, man. For an 18 year old….that’s bad.
I do love, however, when you try to sound all moral in the beginning of your post and then show your true immature 18 year old colors when you start talking about ass rape.
Nicely done Cryle
I hope this wakes you up to the message of Ron Paul. The only real defender of the Constitution.
Though I can not deny that things are changing… This article is over exagerating. Have you noticed that it only paraphrases bits and pieces of the amendment? ” ending the bill of rights”? Come on. Violating maybe. But that was an unneeded exageration
thats cool come and get me then.
+1
I am right there with you
Bullshit. They can have you elect any puppet they want, why would they needs dictatorship? Really, you people fell for the emptiest of promises. “Hope and chane”, come on these are place holders not even complete slogans.
“we need something that signifies hope, you know to convey the people voting for our candidate will bring change”
“eh, what about ‘hope and change’ ”
“don’t be an idiot”
“no aim serious, people have an attention span of a few seconds, they’ve been dumbed down sufficiantly by mass media for this to work. We should try.”
“you know son, you may be on to something…”
BRAVO USA! YOU FUCKED IT AGAIN FOR EVERYBODY! BRAVO! CORPO-NATION!
Michael,
Do you even know what this bill is about? Why do you European faggets continue to focus so much on America. Oh, I know! Because your lives are pointless. We are so interesting to you and your lives are so dull that you can’t stop talking about us. Seriously, your biggest event out there is soccer… AKA Football. Soccer in America gets no attention because it’s boring as hell. Yet it is still a huge hit in Europe. Watching some dudes running around on a field for 90 minutes to watch a tie game 0-0. Again, pointless….just like your lives.
You just said, “YOU FUCKED IT AGAIN FOR EVERYBODY!” This Bill has nothing to do with anyone but people in America. So who did we, “Fucked it”? No one in the entire world besides those living in America are impacted by this.
So yet again, Europeans embarrass themselves because their lives are so empty and pitiful that they can’t stop focusing on someone else. You couldn’t even take the time to figure out what this was about and went ahead and spoke out anyway. Now you look stupid because your comment has no relevancy. But Europe has always looked stupid. Since America had to save your ass in WWII. We should have left all of you queers to live under Hitlers rule. None of you gay boys would be alive. Our mistake….we did, “Fucked it again for everybody!” back then.
I pledge alegience to the fags, of the usa…and to the republic for which it stands …one nation
Under … with justice for all!
David, this is why your country sucks and ours is great. This is why your country can’t stop focusing and talking about us.
No one cares about you and your little worthless country. Oh you have some nice monuments? Neat! NO ONE IN THE WORLD CARES ABOUT YOU!!!! That is why you focus on us so much to write shit like that.
Face it, we will always be better than you. Even if our entire country loses all of its money, has no power, and has to eat out of trash cans…..we are still better than you.
You’re a queer. Nice name, “David.” In America, men are called ‘Dave’. Homosexuals are called David. But I guess that is why you are pledging your allegiance to fags.
Have fun plugging butt holes you poop dick waste of life
it’s soooo boring to keep reading how this is Obama’s doing! one really does not have to step back too far to really see the big picture here, and it’s not any one person or any one party doing this. you honestly think that once Obama is out of office, everything will return to freewheeling good times and freedom and jobs for all? anyone that believes that has to be so utterly moronic that they WILL NOT wake up until they themselves are being carted off to a prison during a Republican’s term in office!
it’s really terribly sad… BUT, this is the exact reason that this stuff is happening now and why it will not stop: because there are still a lot of people that are convinced that their side is better! Sadly juvenile perspective!! well, I got news for you: the Controllers are in both parties and NO parties.
It’s not that that the current state of America was started by Obama. We started hurting years ago when Clinton send major mfg companies overseas. Then Bush set us up for failure with his wonderful presidency. However, Bush set it up….Obama ran us straight into the ground.
No one argues that as soon as Obama is gone, things will be better. It’s the fact that even after Bush’s shitty job, he has put MORE debt and spent MORE money his first term than Bush did in 2.
As far as jobs go, that should have been Obama’s greatest focus during his presidency. He has not created any jobs for anyone. The final nail in the coffin for me is that he not only hasn’t created jobs, he is trying to hurt the job market even more by selling out our country by promising illegals amnesty all for votes. It’s extremely selfish. Both party’s political news commentators have said, Obama KNOWS he is not a good President for America and is not very popular. Because of this, he is scheming for the Hispanic vote. He is literally selling us out just so he can be president again. Even though he knows, we know, and he knows we know that he is not a good economist nor has any good foreign policies. He passed over the drilling for oil which would have brought in Billions to America and instead tried to push his Go Green trash.
It has been said and might be true, he is one of the US worst presidents ever.
I think that anyone whom does not inform themselves regarding this matter by actually reading the 926 pages of this bill should realize that not only is it our right to be informed, it is our RESPONSIBILITY to be informed. Don’t just be lazy and let someone else do the interpreting for you, actually take the time to at least read the section titles (i.e. table of contents) in order to narrow your search, find the section you think contains pertinent information, open another tab with dictionary.com on it to ensure your translation of the legal jargon is accurate, and ensure the information has been interpreted correctly on your own. The saddest thing we can do as citizens with the right to access this kind of information is become blinded sheep following a Shepard who incorrectly interprets this information for us.
Whoever the Senator or Legislator was that introduced this Bill should be prosecuted for Treason to these United States. Our Military Leadership is held under oath to protect the Constitution/ us from all enemies of this Country Foreign & Domestic. This person or these people are no doubt enemies of these United States of America. Outrageous
Though I can not deny that things are changing… This article is over exagerating. Have you noticed that it only paraphrases bits and pieces of the amendment? ” ending the bill of rights”? Come on. Violating maybe. But that was an unneeded exageration
If you truly believe you have “rights” you’re sadly mistaken. Once again, history, folks, is THE most important subject and points us to lessons most Americans are sadly negligent of. Ask the *Americans* of Japanese descent how well their “rights” served them when they were hoarded up like animals and locked up in concentration camps. Wasn’t so long ago that happened. They had “rights” and it did little good. George Carlin was and is right; we don’t have rights, but privileges, and they remain so until the evil empire just takes them away. Get ready, cuz the big hurt is upon us, and with Europe roiling away, the ticking time bomb is set. It’s just a matter of time, and believe me, if you thought 2008 was wild, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
BRAVO USA! YOU FUCKED IT AGAIN FOR EVERYBODY! BRAVO! CORPO-NATION!
Michael,
Do you even know what this bill is about? Why do you European faggets continue to focus so much on America. Oh, I know! Because your lives are pointless. We are so interesting to you and your lives are so dull that you can’t stop talking about us. Seriously, your biggest event out there is soccer… AKA Football. Soccer in America gets no attention because it’s boring as hell. Yet it is still a huge hit in Europe. Watching some dudes running around on a field for 90 minutes to watch a tie game 0-0. Again, pointless….just like your lives.
You just said, “YOU FUCKED IT AGAIN FOR EVERYBODY!” This Bill has nothing to do with anyone but people in America. So who did we, “Fucked it”? No one in the entire world besides those living in America are impacted by this.
So yet again, Europeans embarrass themselves because their lives are so empty and pitiful that they can’t stop focusing on someone else. You couldn’t even take the time to figure out what this was about and went ahead and spoke out anyway. Now you look stupid because your comment has no relevancy. But Europe has always looked stupid. Since America had to save your ass in WWII. We should have left all of you queers to live under Hitlers rule. None of you gay boys would be alive. Our mistake….we did, “Fucked it again for everybody!” back then.
I pledge alegience to the fags, of the usa…and to the republic for which it stands …one nation
Under … with justice for all!
David, this is why your country sucks and ours is great. This is why your country can’t stop focusing and talking about us.
No one cares about you and your little worthless country. Oh you have some nice monuments? Neat! NO ONE IN THE WORLD CARES ABOUT YOU!!!! That is why you focus on us so much to write shit like that.
Face it, we will always be better than you. Even if our entire country loses all of its money, has no power, and has to eat out of trash cans…..we are still better than you.
You’re a queer. Nice name, “David.” In America, men are called ‘Dave’. Homosexuals are called David. But I guess that is why you are pledging your allegiance to fags.
Have fun plugging butt holes you poop dick waste of life
Whoever the Senator or Legislator was that introduced this Bill should be prosecuted for Treason to these United States. Our Military Leadership is held under oath to protect the Constitution/ us from all enemies of this Country Foreign & Domestic. This person or these people are no doubt enemies of these United States of America. Outrageous
shalom
first obama is not muslim, second he is converted to judaisme since he practiced our religion. thist seems american are stupid not to understand the gravity of what is coming to them. you will soon face civil war too.
You are absolutely right. We honestly will face a civil war before my life is over.
And the generations of people that made America the most powerful and richest country in the world many decades ago, will be the last people standing.
There’s a reason those type of people were once and will again be in charge. And all of those who complained, have finally ruined everything they were given. I’m not talking about race, either, I’m talking about mentality. A certain type of people were the most powerful and smartest men in America. People cried and called them corrupt and racist. Well once the ‘people’ had their over powered freedom, they ruined this country. I mean absolutely ruined it. I thank today’s generation of 18-40 year olds. You are America’s cancer. (not all of you, just the liberals and the liberal leaning progressives)
I CAN’T WAIT! It will be such a better place when the filth is washed away.
***You can’t even argue with what I said either. Were we or were we not the greatest nation in the world many decades ago? What was the typical American religious and political belief? Now how does America run? And what is our financial and social state? You can’t fight the facts. It has officially played out, there’s no denying it. You all did a great job.***
@showme
SEC. 1034. (4) Pg 571 Line 9-13 of HR1540 (currently being resolved of differences with S1867, in preperation for either signature by the president, or Overturn by the 77% of the House of Reps and the 90% of the Senate which supported it, since it only needs 66% to be able to be forced into passage without Presidential signature.)
9 the President’s authority pursuant to the
10 Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law
11 107–40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note) includes the authority
12 to detain belligerents, including persons described in
13 paragraph (3), until the termination of hostilities.
In short, it declares the ability to detain any person who is deemed to be an enemy of the state, according to the declaration under the ‘War on Terrorism”, as an enemy belligerent, indefinitely without trial until the cessation of hostilites against ‘terror’.
Notice it does not say “limited to persons described in paragraph (3)” but rather says “including…”
The declaration of independence grants us, the citizens, the power to over turn the government if it gets to be out of hand. The founding fathers saw this coming.
If you truly believe you have “rights” you’re sadly mistaken. Once again, history, folks, is THE most important subject and points us to lessons most Americans are sadly negligent of. Ask the *Americans* of Japanese descent how well their “rights” served them when they were hoarded up like animals and locked up in concentration camps. Wasn’t so long ago that happened. They had “rights” and it did little good. George Carlin was and is right; we don’t have rights, but privileges, and they remain so until the evil empire just takes them away. Get ready, cuz the big hurt is upon us, and with Europe roiling away, the ticking time bomb is set. It’s just a matter of time, and believe me, if you thought 2008 was wild, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
this article is an outright lie. there is nothing in this bill even close to what the article says. if so i challenge you to list the subtitle and section. the only people that need to be afraid of this are terrorist.
im sorry when did dictatorship become part of the senate? when did they become what they souly thought they were getting rid of? thank you for putting sadem ,sadem bin ladden ,omar kadafi in the drivers seat of destruction of the united states!!!! thanks tp the striking of the match by sadem bin ladden by hitting the world trade centers and the pentigon the U.S senate is nothing but scared little cowards be brave and stand up for your country do not spit in the eye of America for as we that fought for freedom of opression of dictatorship from the british in the thirteen colinies and to put us back from which we come from the start of a new hypocracy dictatorship should be fighting words for every natural and unnatural red blooded American like the flag says “DON`T TRED ON ME”!!!! the U.S constitution will stand for liberty freedom and justic for all. to sever the bill of rights is to destroy not only our heritage but our rights as a free country to have rights. and if the senate passes this may they rot and forever burn in hell as god as their witness – amen
Wow wow… this sounds very good 😀
could someone list the exact subtitle and sec. it states this because i’m not seeing it.
I believe I prevailed in the Federal case over my Hiroshima day arrest for being in the public right of way where the nukes came from (USDC Complaint No. C03-3665 SBA Oakland Div.) and it didn’t apparently get me killed, yet either…
It will be ironic to see American immigrants around driving our taxis in some other developed country they’ve run to when this goes too far.
Madaleine,
Americans will never “run” anywhere. We aren’t like you Europeans who run from every controversy that comes our way.
We always prevail. This economy and current state are very rough waters and may take decades to get past. But even if a civil war starts, we will never flee.
But let us know if you guys are unable to solve anymore problems that you would like America to fix for you. Then you can act ungrateful about it years later, like it never happened.
…..Silly Euros who think America cares what they think about us. Their lives are so worthless they can’t keep their mind off of us.
Now it is up to O”bomb”a to veto it. Certainly the Congressmen would not want their children and grandchildren to live under such a dictatorship (one would think) – regardless what kickbacks and or monetary prizes thrown to them from the bowels of hell for their votes right?
shalom
first obama is not muslim, second he is converted to judaisme since he practiced our religion. thist seems american are stupid not to understand the gravity of what is coming to them. you will soon face civil war too.
You are absolutely right. We honestly will face a civil war before my life is over.
And the generations of people that made America the most powerful and richest country in the world many decades ago, will be the last people standing.
There’s a reason those type of people were once and will again be in charge. And all of those who complained, have finally ruined everything they were given. I’m not talking about race, either, I’m talking about mentality. A certain type of people were the most powerful and smartest men in America. People cried and called them corrupt and racist. Well once the ‘people’ had their over powered freedom, they ruined this country. I mean absolutely ruined it. I thank today’s generation of 18-40 year olds. You are America’s cancer. (not all of you, just the liberals and the liberal leaning progressives)
I CAN’T WAIT! It will be such a better place when the filth is washed away.
***You can’t even argue with what I said either. Were we or were we not the greatest nation in the world many decades ago? What was the typical American religious and political belief? Now how does America run? And what is our financial and social state? You can’t fight the facts. It has officially played out, there’s no denying it. You all did a great job.***
Obama Won’t Veto the NDAA because he doesn’t have to… an amendment passed including language that takes indefinite detention off the table for citizens or any other persons….
Why can’t you find a news report about this? Am I looking in the wrong places? I had to go look this up myself… and I’m no wonk.
On December 1, 2011 all but 7 senators voted for the NDAA with the indefinite detention provisions. A few minutes later the following amendment was inserted and passed 99:1
Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.
http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2011/s/215
@showme
SEC. 1034. (4) Pg 571 Line 9-13 of HR1540 (currently being resolved of differences with S1867, in preperation for either signature by the president, or Overturn by the 77% of the House of Reps and the 90% of the Senate which supported it, since it only needs 66% to be able to be forced into passage without Presidential signature.)
9 the President’s authority pursuant to the
10 Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law
11 107–40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note) includes the authority
12 to detain belligerents, including persons described in
13 paragraph (3), until the termination of hostilities.
In short, it declares the ability to detain any person who is deemed to be an enemy of the state, according to the declaration under the ‘War on Terrorism”, as an enemy belligerent, indefinitely without trial until the cessation of hostilites against ‘terror’.
Notice it does not say “limited to persons described in paragraph (3)” but rather says “including…”
This is an outrage!
What is happening now has been referred to as “time for the Jews to get out of Germany.” Only, who is the target? Any “terrorist” right? Well, I hate to break it to everyone but terrorism is an idea and no matter how badly we want it to disappear it wont. Because ideas are born in people. Until EVERY person is dead the idea wont disappear either. And who, according to “America” is a terrorist anyway? It is anyone who threatens to destroy the way we currently enjoy living. Who is currently threatening that?! The main culprit is not a turban-headed moslem. Not even a foreigner. No, it is our own representatives and senators. This country was founded on the idea that the people would be in control, that the people should not be afraid of the government but the government should be afraid of the people. What happened to the American ideal? When did the government loose sight of what America is? I have an answer for that too. It is like Thomas Jefferson himself feared: “America will be great until it learns that they can vote themselves money.” This whole conundrum that the US gov. is putting us through is solely based on greed. And it is time for the truly humble to step in and take there place and for the REAL terrorists to be put behind bars, exactly where they voted themselves to be… without trial.
Once again King Hussein Obama slides another bill under the door of the senate and congress. Fro the last three years, he has done nothing but turn this country upside down, and inside out. One more step toward the communist doctrine that we have fought and died to keep away from our front doors. And guess what, King Hussein Obama just rammed it down our throats. I hope all you people that voted for this person are happy with the change he is bringing around, because you are the ones who will pay the price of loosing everything to a Totalitarian Government. Take a long look at what you have now, because if this bill becomes law, you will have nothing left. Me, I intend to fight for my freedom, and if I have to, I’ll die for it.
Don, this bill has nothing to do with Obama. It’s driven by Republican representatives, and Obama has threatened to veto it, which I sincerely hope and trust he will. That is, he is against this kind of totalitarian measure. The Patriot Act (the beginning of restricting our Bill of Rights in same way as this bill) was created by the Bush regime.
Don,
I hate to admit it but azas is right. I don’t know wtf prompted this but it was an awful decision. But yes, Obama still sucks. He still hasn’t stopped the war like he promised he would within 12 months of his inauguration. He still followed in Bush’s footsteps and has put us in greater debt and spent more in 1 term than bush did in 2 terms. He still hasn’t created any jobs. And he still is prancing around promoting his Green campaign instead of giving the “Green” light to start drilling and begin putting BILLIONS in America’s pockets.
This website is complete horseshit hahhahahhahah. Clearly not a reliable source for information… I will commend whoever made it though… you’ve got a lot of time on your hands!
This is actually happening….
It’s actually not. This article took a small bit of the REAL bill and exaggerated it times one billion. It won’t pass anyway.
It’s quite obvious you believe in EVERYTHING the media tells you.
Exactly >.>…. the article doesn’t even have the quote from the bill, let alone a summary of what it says. It is pretty general on what it says.
The declaration of independence grants us, the citizens, the power to over turn the government if it gets to be out of hand. The founding fathers saw this coming.
This author has done a disservice to the readers by not pointing to a petition or some other actionable item.
this article is an outright lie. there is nothing in this bill even close to what the article says. if so i challenge you to list the subtitle and section. the only people that need to be afraid of this are terrorist.
So tell me, instead of ranting on here, or demonstrating in the streets. Who can do what to fix our problems in congress?
im sorry when did dictatorship become part of the senate? when did they become what they souly thought they were getting rid of? thank you for putting sadem ,sadem bin ladden ,omar kadafi in the drivers seat of destruction of the united states!!!! thanks tp the striking of the match by sadem bin ladden by hitting the world trade centers and the pentigon the U.S senate is nothing but scared little cowards be brave and stand up for your country do not spit in the eye of America for as we that fought for freedom of opression of dictatorship from the british in the thirteen colinies and to put us back from which we come from the start of a new hypocracy dictatorship should be fighting words for every natural and unnatural red blooded American like the flag says “DON`T TRED ON ME”!!!! the U.S constitution will stand for liberty freedom and justic for all. to sever the bill of rights is to destroy not only our heritage but our rights as a free country to have rights. and if the senate passes this may they rot and forever burn in hell as god as their witness – amen
Wut? This website isn’t even U.s. based. I believe this bill has been completely misconstrued for the purpose of this outlandish article. Tell me, for what reason exactly would the U.S institute marshal law at this point in time? There isn’t a legitimate reason. This is total garbage and propaganda. Why don’t you guys like study outer space or something instead of being conspiracy obsessed and so overly pessimistic. It is much more rewarding,
K thx Ken!
Right on Ken!
Comment on US Senate’s bill to make USA become ”battleground”
http://wp.me/p17M3t-3ia
Wow wow… this sounds very good 😀
As I read it.. It is indeed explicitly stated in this bill that the measure does not extend to citizens of the United States. However, the impunity seemingly granted by the law to the military for its activities, if they are poorly executed or misguided, deprives the citizens of any substantive guaranties that they will not be “processed” as enemies of the state just as easily as foreign subjects. This means that persons who are afterwards found to be US citizens, or innocent, or executed mistakenly and whatnot cannot seek justice by pressing charges against mistakes, negligence or excessive force on the part of the military – for reasons that the military is unanswerable for any of its actions by default of this law. The law gives the military authority a green light to do pretty much everything they think expedient without concern for legal consequences of their actions.
what happens when they shoot a group of occupy members? do you think they gona be able to press charges later?
“they gona be able”?
If they did shoot them, it would make my week. I am so tired of this occupy whiny protest bullshit. All these people, probably yourself included, are doing is complaining about not having any money. The teachers are the worst. They pay almost nothing into their pensions and receive a crazy amount. I have a friend who’s mom is a teacher getting close to retirement and her pension is worth $1 Million….and they complain when they don’t get a raise? Many of us this year not only didn’t get a raise, we got a pay cut. Welcome to the REAL WORLD ladies and gentlemen.
Occupy is fueled by everyone who has feasted off of the money of people like me who have worked hard for years, earning a salary and paying taxes regularly. I have never taken a single check from the government except for a tax return on overpaid taxes; because yes I pay my taxes. So now that you selfish irresponsible “citizens” have bled us dry, you are feeling our pain. But now because you can’t suck money from anyone else, it’s someone’s fault and you have to go protest about it. Anyone who says finding a job is hard is ridiculous. I have been offered 5 jobs in the past year. One I applied for when I moved and the rest came to me after I was hired, without me even looking for them. It’s only hard for felons and idiots. Or those of you who would rather stay in an expensive city like LA or New York and crowd with everyone else. I don’t think that is anyone else’s fault, is it?
> I have been offered 5 jobs in the past year.
what kind of jobs? in what industry? just curious.
2 were various administrative positions at a couple nearby state Universities. I’m not sure why because although I have done administrative work, nothing with universities…other than attending as a student. As far as the other 3, one was for a local private practice, one at the VA med center, and the 3rd at the local city hospital. My prior work involved training with the CDC, OSHA, and EPA for regulatory compliance standards. In Oklahoma I was in charge of infection control policies and standards for a hospital. Writing and enforcing asepsis policies, performing inspections, following up on any incidents, briefing staff or OSHA/CDC inspectors on any trend statistics or areas of concern.
If you have seen the movie, “Contagion” it kind of has to do with some things I work on. Like when she explains every so many seconds some one touches their face, then sneezes, then touches a door knob, then shakes hands, and so on and so on. Those are the things in a hospital setting that have guidelines set in place to prevent the transmission of any potential pathogen. And I’m the one who makes/changes/ updates them. Like getting sinks installed with foot controls instead of handles to turn on the water so staff don’t contaminate their hands touching the handles is a basic example.
Anyway, much more than you asked for but I am a little wired tonight so I’m hoping to fall asleep soon.
My point is, those 2 university positions were way out of my normal line of duty and I’m not even sure how or why they chose me. The other 3 are obvious why I would be sought to work. The private practice just wanted someone with experience to take a look at their written policies for correctness and make updates because they were getting a OSHA inspector visit soon and that’s an inspectable item.
It’s not hard getting a job. If you can’t get one, you’re in the wrong city or you are undesirable for one reason or another. I have felt I worked hard during my life. But there have also been points where I was a lazy POS. Either way, I’ve never had trouble finding work and I don’t just think I’m ‘lucky’.
I do not know what the definition of impunity is operative in this law. Generally, impunity means “exemption from punishment or loss or escape from fines”. “the impossibility, de jure or de facto, of bringing the perpetrators of violations to account – whether in criminal, civil, administrative or disciplinary proceedings – since they are not subject to any inquiry that might lead to their being accused, arrested, tried and, if found guilty, sentenced to appropriate penalties, and to making reparations to their victims.”
Diplomatic immunity: from wiki
In January 1997, in the U.S., the Deputy Ambassador of the Republic of Georgia, Gueorgui Makharadze, caused an accident that injured four people and killed a 16-year-old girl. He was found to have a blood-alcohol level of 0.15% but was released from custody because he was a diplomat.
I’m not at all surpised. Everybody needs to get some thigh high boots because the s**t is getting deep in this country.
could someone list the exact subtitle and sec. it states this because i’m not seeing it.
I believe I prevailed in the Federal case over my Hiroshima day arrest for being in the public right of way where the nukes came from (USDC Complaint No. C03-3665 SBA Oakland Div.) and it didn’t apparently get me killed, yet either…
It will be ironic to see American immigrants around driving our taxis in some other developed country they’ve run to when this goes too far.
Madaleine,
Americans will never “run” anywhere. We aren’t like you Europeans who run from every controversy that comes our way.
We always prevail. This economy and current state are very rough waters and may take decades to get past. But even if a civil war starts, we will never flee.
But let us know if you guys are unable to solve anymore problems that you would like America to fix for you. Then you can act ungrateful about it years later, like it never happened.
…..Silly Euros who think America cares what they think about us. Their lives are so worthless they can’t keep their mind off of us.
Now it is up to O”bomb”a to veto it. Certainly the Congressmen would not want their children and grandchildren to live under such a dictatorship (one would think) – regardless what kickbacks and or monetary prizes thrown to them from the bowels of hell for their votes right?
First of all, I’d just like to point out that, in the future, the bill can be translated differently to suit their purposes, as it has been done in the past.
Now that’s out of the way, and I can state that this won’t happen as long a we the people are against it. congress seems to think they have some ridiculous power over the people, when it is us who hire them, it is us who can take them out of office, because we have the right to. We did that with governors in the past, we can certainly change the entire senate if we really wanted to.
In the most extreme circumstances, we even nave the right to overthrow the government, should the majority of the nation feel that we are no longer america. I think the people at the top need to realize what little power they actually have, and stop trying to take power that’s not theirs to begin with.
I understand Alexa, and yes, am completely greatful for the separation of powers motif our government is modeled on, however; some of us are still a little thrown off by the obvious attempts of those in power (in this case congress) to try to supress the voices and dissent of Americans against what is quite clearly an abuse of power by so many hands on so many levels in this country. They dont want us waking up too fast, they want to get richer still before they inevitably destroy our country!!!!
i think everyone needs to wake up. If this isn’t happening now, it very well could. At this point I trust neither party to protect our Constitutional rights. They are being chipped away again and again. Corporations control us. We will do what they want, or else.
Obama Won’t Veto the NDAA because he doesn’t have to… an amendment passed including language that takes indefinite detention off the table for citizens or any other persons….
Why can’t you find a news report about this? Am I looking in the wrong places? I had to go look this up myself… and I’m no wonk.
On December 1, 2011 all but 7 senators voted for the NDAA with the indefinite detention provisions. A few minutes later the following amendment was inserted and passed 99:1
Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.
http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2011/s/215
What you need to realize is this:
The U.S government is not here to provide rights to it’s citizens. It exists solely to appease the entities that give it the means to exist. The Fed ( World Bank ) and Corporations enable our government to exist.
America is a CONSUMER. America does not export goods that other countries need. We are a giant hulking behemoth that is a resource hog. We are the 700 lb gorilla in the room. We have the technology and the means to stop all of the socio-economincal problems that plague this planet but we dont…. why? America thrives off inefficiency and problems and turmoil.
America needs to keep going to war because we have no other mearns to make money. Defense contractors need a new enemy every day to create weapons to battle…
Endless war is our policy. The Blue Blood families that exist will go to any means to keep themselves in power….they will kill anyone and untold amounts of human life to keep this process in motion…they do not have any empathy for their actions…. just look at death toll in iraq and afghanistan… tolling over 1 million people….. this is the new age holocaust. If future human civilizations exist they will look back at America as we “look back” at Germany.
The human race is a disgrace to organisms.
Will it be challenged? Sure. But anybody who challenges it may be accused of conspiracy against the US and find themselve indefinitly detained. That’s the problem with these sort of liberty killing laws. They give govt way too much power.
This is an outrage!
What is happening now has been referred to as “time for the Jews to get out of Germany.” Only, who is the target? Any “terrorist” right? Well, I hate to break it to everyone but terrorism is an idea and no matter how badly we want it to disappear it wont. Because ideas are born in people. Until EVERY person is dead the idea wont disappear either. And who, according to “America” is a terrorist anyway? It is anyone who threatens to destroy the way we currently enjoy living. Who is currently threatening that?! The main culprit is not a turban-headed moslem. Not even a foreigner. No, it is our own representatives and senators. This country was founded on the idea that the people would be in control, that the people should not be afraid of the government but the government should be afraid of the people. What happened to the American ideal? When did the government loose sight of what America is? I have an answer for that too. It is like Thomas Jefferson himself feared: “America will be great until it learns that they can vote themselves money.” This whole conundrum that the US gov. is putting us through is solely based on greed. And it is time for the truly humble to step in and take there place and for the REAL terrorists to be put behind bars, exactly where they voted themselves to be… without trial.
Once again King Hussein Obama slides another bill under the door of the senate and congress. Fro the last three years, he has done nothing but turn this country upside down, and inside out. One more step toward the communist doctrine that we have fought and died to keep away from our front doors. And guess what, King Hussein Obama just rammed it down our throats. I hope all you people that voted for this person are happy with the change he is bringing around, because you are the ones who will pay the price of loosing everything to a Totalitarian Government. Take a long look at what you have now, because if this bill becomes law, you will have nothing left. Me, I intend to fight for my freedom, and if I have to, I’ll die for it.
Don, this bill has nothing to do with Obama. It’s driven by Republican representatives, and Obama has threatened to veto it, which I sincerely hope and trust he will. That is, he is against this kind of totalitarian measure. The Patriot Act (the beginning of restricting our Bill of Rights in same way as this bill) was created by the Bush regime.
Don,
I hate to admit it but azas is right. I don’t know wtf prompted this but it was an awful decision. But yes, Obama still sucks. He still hasn’t stopped the war like he promised he would within 12 months of his inauguration. He still followed in Bush’s footsteps and has put us in greater debt and spent more in 1 term than bush did in 2 terms. He still hasn’t created any jobs. And he still is prancing around promoting his Green campaign instead of giving the “Green” light to start drilling and begin putting BILLIONS in America’s pockets.
This website is complete horseshit hahhahahhahah. Clearly not a reliable source for information… I will commend whoever made it though… you’ve got a lot of time on your hands!
This is actually happening….
It’s actually not. This article took a small bit of the REAL bill and exaggerated it times one billion. It won’t pass anyway.
It’s quite obvious you believe in EVERYTHING the media tells you.
Exactly >.>…. the article doesn’t even have the quote from the bill, let alone a summary of what it says. It is pretty general on what it says.
This author has done a disservice to the readers by not pointing to a petition or some other actionable item.
People need to realize that this bill is completely outright unconstitutional, and if it even goes into effect, once challenged it will never hold up. We have a Supreme Court for times like these when Congress tries to pass bills like this one. The Supreme Court has already ruled that detaining a civilian in a military prison and trying them in a military court is unconstitutional back in the 1860’s in a case called Ex Parte Milligan. It angers me that people don’t understand that Congress is not the final say on everything. If this bill was passed, it would still be up to the President to enforce it because he is commander-in-chief of the army, and if Obama wants any shot at re-election he won’t even sign this bill, never mind enforce it. Everyone needs to realized there are 3 branches of government, and bills that are just outright unconstitutional will just not stand up against the branch designed to interpret the Constitution.
Well said.
Although I agree there’s a lot of “panic” in the article, I think Josh is right. Don’t panic. That will just give the gov “justification” to follow through.
As for the bill saying “only terrorist connection” folks are subject, its wording DOES let them do this to ANYONE. Here’s how:
So, let’s pretend I’m a cop. I’m going to haul in “don’t believe media guy” for questioning. The bill states its with discretion. So, even though Don’t Believe was NO WHERE NEAR involved, and keeps saying just that, I used my “discretion” and have “reason to suspect” I can detain him INDEFINATELY for “questioning”. No lawyer. No right to remain silent. AAAAND I can do ALL those “fun” things (stated in the bill) to Don’t Believe to “get info”. That’s the worry. We KNOW for a FACT that they’ve been erroding our right with some shaddy business for a while now. What makes you think they’re going to “turn good” and “look out” for their people now?
So tell me, instead of ranting on here, or demonstrating in the streets. Who can do what to fix our problems in congress?
This website is completely blowing it out of proportion. If you read the bill (and they give you the link above) it says anyone connected to the September 11, 2001 Terrorists attacks and goes on to list that they mean anyone involved in the planning, attacks and/or anyone who harbored someone who had to do with the attacks on the US. This site just wants to scare you.
And how are they supposed to determine whether or not you, Don’t Believe Everything Media Says, are NOT involved in the Sept 11 terrorist attacks? That’s the point. Simply because you mention 9/11 could raise a flag and you could find yourself detained indefinitely.
Wut? This website isn’t even U.s. based. I believe this bill has been completely misconstrued for the purpose of this outlandish article. Tell me, for what reason exactly would the U.S institute marshal law at this point in time? There isn’t a legitimate reason. This is total garbage and propaganda. Why don’t you guys like study outer space or something instead of being conspiracy obsessed and so overly pessimistic. It is much more rewarding,
K thx Ken!
Right on Ken!
another note what makes money in america and big ones WAR the government is starting a war on its own people to raise money they put them selves in. look up FEMA camps it shows that the government will lock you away to rehibilitate us citizens how do you rehibilitate us citizens in cages and lock away in the cold they are plannng and we need to plan to
Kyleeeeee………you need some serious writing skills! Just don’t even type anymore until you learn how to express your thoughts. No one knows what the hell you are saying.
But this is another prime example of a ‘great’ American.
You complain about being broke and the mean old government not giving you anything but look how educated you are. Did you even finish high school? Or did you go the ‘cool’ way and get a GED? That’s some serious 6th grade talent my friend. No wonder you are broke. Who would hire you when you write like that on a job application.
But it’s not your fault is it?
Comment on US Senate’s bill to make USA become “battleground”
http://wp.me/p17M3t-3ia
im 18 got nothing due to the economy have no way to go to college living beetween friends this bill, or marshall law that is trying to be past shows what the government shows they want you to feel scared to give your rights up so then they can support gentic testing and other crap the government hides and then you wont have any say in it
Kyle, let us grownups talk. It is pretty sad that those are your writing skills at the age of 18. You definitely need college.
So…..Just do what everyone else does. Take out a Federal Student Aid loan. Also file for a couple of grants. Then go to college on the governments dime (my tax dollars). Once you start school, file for unemployment so you can have plenty of beer money and party through college.
Finally, IF you graduate. Gather in protest and complain to the government that you are poor. Meanwhile you have a brand new iPhone in your hand, taking protest videos, and a nice LCD flat screen TV at home…..but not a cent of that student loan (my tax dollars) are paid back.
That’s what 80% of the college students participating in the Occupy bullshit have done. It’s the new American way. Take money from others and then complain when you don’t get any more.
@Say What: You’re a fucking prick. Give the kid a break, your English skills aren’t so hot either. Try proofreading before posting. Oh, and take that broomstick out of your ass.
So, you’re a grown-up huh? I grown-up what? Moron? Willingly ignorant?
Well, regardless of what it is that you think you are a grown-up of, your viewpoints appear to based on a lot of false premises (actually, almost all of what you posted seems like a pretty twisted perspective based on things you might have been told, but are just plain lies). I support kyle. Well, at least kind-of. I support his right to protest something that he believes is wrong. I support his desire to make accountable the “privileged”.
I am part of the 99% (though apparently only like 3% of it). Truthfully, anyone that doesn’t support the occupy movement (at least a little) is apparently a) part of the privileged b) part of the people that the privileged have conned into dragging themselves and everyone else down.
Mr. Thomas,
I have gone down the page and noticed you have been at this thread for some time. Critiquing each comment as you see fit. While I applaud your acknowledgment of civil liberties and freedoms, I do disagree with your comment about the Occupy movement.
Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who are fed up with this organization (if you can call it that). I witnessed at a local University, students gathering to protest their student loans. How is that justified? Should I protest my mortgage? How about my car loan? I have watched many youtube videos of people from the occupy movement. Many of them are quite humorous but so they are intended to be by the interviewer. Others were pro-Occupy and still didn’t catch my interest. This government/administration is worse than many before it and we, as citizens, are certainly paying for it. But to protest things like corporate greed is a pretty biased argument.
Let me explain. I watched one video as an Occupier said, “The top 1% only gets taxes $0.25 to every $1.00 of the American people.” That is so far from the truth that he obviously had no clue. I can’t find current stats but in 2009, the top 1% paid 35% of America’s taxes. The bottom 50% (me included) only paid 2%. How sad is that? Yes they have billions of more dollars than we do, but we have billions of more people than they do. Proportionally, it seems off. The top 1% already pays more than we do and to say, “they are greedy” just because they are wealthy, isn’t justified. Should they pay more to their employees? Absolutely. Should they hand out any more than they already do to anyone outside of their company? No.
Students attending college are doing so by choice, not force. It is said all over the media all the time, college almost isn’t worth attending anymore as it will take years to pay off the debt with the small average salary when starting out. Yet many still go; and no shame to them. But to complain of YOUR loan is ridiculous. Instead of these people complaining they have to pay back money that THEY BORROWED, they should acknowledge that those government loans they took out are largely contributing to the nation’s deficit. I feel we should be protesting them to pay back what they owe. Forget the fact that FAFSA is a low interest government loan; seems ungrateful to complain about that.
To me, from what I have heard and seen, the Occupy movement involves a lot of selfishness and irresponsibility. Yes, our government is extremely flawed right now. But it is not because of corporations who not only pay more taxes than us combined, they are also responsible for many jobs (whatever companies that aren’t overseas).
As a backround….I am an average middle class citizen, on the lower end of the scale. This year I will stand to make a little under $22k after taxes. Thankfully I have a loving wife who is also employed and helps to pay the bills while I attend college. We have a 3 bedroom house and a dog named Finn. My parents are also middle class, my father is the director of sales for a large private travel agency while my mother is an insurance agent for a private insurance firm. They are on the upper end of the middle class scale. However, striving for the “American Dream” they invested their entire life savings into opening up a franchise in their city. It started off very well but has long since tapered off. They HOPE to start writing themselves checks in 2012 after 3 years of making nothing off of their investment. They were told that it would take a year or two to start earning profit after paying employees and eating the initial costs of equipment and supplies.
All that background was for is to prove to you, that we are not privileged. We work very hard for what we have. Yet my family and our friends feel the same as I do and do NOT support the Occupy movement. America truly has less responsibility and work ethics than we once had a few decades ago. Complaining about being broke isn’t going to do anything. Go out and earn it, there are jobs….I know because I have had to look
Interesting…
Your post is wonderful. It explains your position as a “b” from my previous post. The point in the “occupy” movement (not an organization, though there was an organization formed to help support the movement), is to make fiscal changes in our system. Once you are able to reach the upper end of the financial system, things start changing. Because you now have considerably more resources coming in than NEED (this is where many trust-fund failures lose it) to go out, you have options. There are many loopholes in the current system that allow you to take advantage of things like buying real estate and then allowing public use (though you still own it), and have to pay next to nothing on it, and get a tax advantage from it. This is just one of MANY options. I know this for a fact, as I take advantage of some of those loopholes myself (I worked my butt off since I was barely a teen). This said, the exact figure that he gave you is most likely incorrect, but certainly not in the wrong neighborhood.
The fact that you somehow believe that the “occupy” movement is all about forgiveness of student loans shows that you are just taking what is being fed to you (eg. propaganda). The movement is not complaining about being poor, the movement is about people playing by the same fiscal rules.
I really believe that you fall into the “b” category, though, there is a third “c) Just too ignorant to care” category that I had not thought to mention earlier.
P.S. Just to be clear, I may not be part of the 1%, but well within the 4%. I work hard, am good at what I do, and have been doing it for a LONG time.
As I read it.. It is indeed explicitly stated in this bill that the measure does not extend to citizens of the United States. However, the impunity seemingly granted by the law to the military for its activities, if they are poorly executed or misguided, deprives the citizens of any substantive guaranties that they will not be “processed” as enemies of the state just as easily as foreign subjects. This means that persons who are afterwards found to be US citizens, or innocent, or executed mistakenly and whatnot cannot seek justice by pressing charges against mistakes, negligence or excessive force on the part of the military – for reasons that the military is unanswerable for any of its actions by default of this law. The law gives the military authority a green light to do pretty much everything they think expedient without concern for legal consequences of their actions.
what happens when they shoot a group of occupy members? do you think they gona be able to press charges later?
“they gona be able”?
If they did shoot them, it would make my week. I am so tired of this occupy whiny protest bullshit. All these people, probably yourself included, are doing is complaining about not having any money. The teachers are the worst. They pay almost nothing into their pensions and receive a crazy amount. I have a friend who’s mom is a teacher getting close to retirement and her pension is worth $1 Million….and they complain when they don’t get a raise? Many of us this year not only didn’t get a raise, we got a pay cut. Welcome to the REAL WORLD ladies and gentlemen.
Occupy is fueled by everyone who has feasted off of the money of people like me who have worked hard for years, earning a salary and paying taxes regularly. I have never taken a single check from the government except for a tax return on overpaid taxes; because yes I pay my taxes. So now that you selfish irresponsible “citizens” have bled us dry, you are feeling our pain. But now because you can’t suck money from anyone else, it’s someone’s fault and you have to go protest about it. Anyone who says finding a job is hard is ridiculous. I have been offered 5 jobs in the past year. One I applied for when I moved and the rest came to me after I was hired, without me even looking for them. It’s only hard for felons and idiots. Or those of you who would rather stay in an expensive city like LA or New York and crowd with everyone else. I don’t think that is anyone else’s fault, is it?
> I have been offered 5 jobs in the past year.
what kind of jobs? in what industry? just curious.
2 were various administrative positions at a couple nearby state Universities. I’m not sure why because although I have done administrative work, nothing with universities…other than attending as a student. As far as the other 3, one was for a local private practice, one at the VA med center, and the 3rd at the local city hospital. My prior work involved training with the CDC, OSHA, and EPA for regulatory compliance standards. In Oklahoma I was in charge of infection control policies and standards for a hospital. Writing and enforcing asepsis policies, performing inspections, following up on any incidents, briefing staff or OSHA/CDC inspectors on any trend statistics or areas of concern.
If you have seen the movie, “Contagion” it kind of has to do with some things I work on. Like when she explains every so many seconds some one touches their face, then sneezes, then touches a door knob, then shakes hands, and so on and so on. Those are the things in a hospital setting that have guidelines set in place to prevent the transmission of any potential pathogen. And I’m the one who makes/changes/ updates them. Like getting sinks installed with foot controls instead of handles to turn on the water so staff don’t contaminate their hands touching the handles is a basic example.
Anyway, much more than you asked for but I am a little wired tonight so I’m hoping to fall asleep soon.
My point is, those 2 university positions were way out of my normal line of duty and I’m not even sure how or why they chose me. The other 3 are obvious why I would be sought to work. The private practice just wanted someone with experience to take a look at their written policies for correctness and make updates because they were getting a OSHA inspector visit soon and that’s an inspectable item.
It’s not hard getting a job. If you can’t get one, you’re in the wrong city or you are undesirable for one reason or another. I have felt I worked hard during my life. But there have also been points where I was a lazy POS. Either way, I’ve never had trouble finding work and I don’t just think I’m ‘lucky’.
I do not know what the definition of impunity is operative in this law. Generally, impunity means “exemption from punishment or loss or escape from fines”. “the impossibility, de jure or de facto, of bringing the perpetrators of violations to account – whether in criminal, civil, administrative or disciplinary proceedings – since they are not subject to any inquiry that might lead to their being accused, arrested, tried and, if found guilty, sentenced to appropriate penalties, and to making reparations to their victims.”
Diplomatic immunity: from wiki
In January 1997, in the U.S., the Deputy Ambassador of the Republic of Georgia, Gueorgui Makharadze, caused an accident that injured four people and killed a 16-year-old girl. He was found to have a blood-alcohol level of 0.15% but was released from custody because he was a diplomat.
I can’t believe what I’m reading. The reason we are losing our rights is because we can not come together united. We continue to to fight against ourselves and with each passing min. We lose more freedoms. Its not about Obama nor Republicans or Democrats, its about big government. We as a nation, are damned. I’m a patriot and love my Country, I’ve bleed for it and would again if called. On the other hand, I hate my gov. And will not follow this police state dictatorship. Anyone that voted for this new bill needs to be arrested and held as a act of treason. When you give the military such power then all is lost. What will stop them from passing more laws and powers. Do you really thing the government cares about you in any way. Our Nation was founded to give the people its power, so our government should fear us. I swore to protect my Country from any enemy, foreign or domestic.
You’re right. We are no longer America, “The Melting Pot.” We are America, “The Sea of Sharks.”
What has happened is minority groups have cried discrimination and pulled the race card for so many years that not only were they given full rights, they were overcompensated for and given greater power than any normal American. Now all of these minority groups have taken and taken and forced things upon others that wouldn’t have been forced upon them. It has turned into an all out turf war. I have to be ok with a Mosque down in NY near the 9/11 site but the pledge of allegiance has been taken out of school because it has the word “god” in it. Not only that but it is now acceptable to not stand for the National Anthem. It’s almost considered a bold statement that is respected.
All of those aforementioned issues are what is tearing America apart. They should all be crimes. We need to go back to our roots when we were happy and prospering. Decades ago anyone who didn’t stand for the Star Spangled Banner would have been locked up. It should be that way. Don’t come to a country and use it for everything it offers and not pay any respect. Completely ungrateful. Do you say thank you when you get a present on your birthday? Or do you just look at the person and walk away? No respect in America anymore. Selfish sharks
Wow. So basically, Jamie is saying we should stop arguing about petty differences and come together. Then Agreed comes in and makes a whole bunch of incredibly racist and downright ignorant comments in response. Agreed, you are totally and completely missing the point.
Apparently you are missing the point. Nothing in the previous statement is racist. Speaking the truth of the way the country has acted is racist?
Here’s a fact. Ohio State University’s Dental school, one of the largest in the nation, has over 1700 applicants each class and only 315 seats. Ohio State as a whole has decided that they want to focus on more African American and Hispanic acceptances than Asians and Whites. White males are now only guaranteed 30% of the seats for that program. I have a friend who is much farther ahead of me who applied with a 3.75 GPA. He went and took his DAT (dental application test) with his African American female friend who had a 3.4 GPA. He scored higher than she did. Not saying she did bad, but he did better. Guess who got accepted. Not him. How is that fair?
So now we are making people doctors not because of their talents but because of their race. Another story, Dayton, OH was on the news about 4-5 months ago when it was announced that they are throwing out the entrance exam for becoming a police officer and only doing interviews because the state feels there are not enough African Americans on the force. Many were called back who had previously FAILED the test, not even scored high enough to apply and they were hired. A month later a mentally disabled child was maced, hog tied, and throw in the back of a police car while he was playing outside in front of his home. His mother and the neighbors came out trying to explain his condition but the officer wouldn’t listen. His reasoning……”He was disrespecting me.” Because of the child’s disability and its associated speech impediment, the officer thought the child was taunting him, or disrespecting him. A direct result of a failed system.
Now when referring to Jamie’s “come together with limited government” post. That is what progressive America has lost sight of. They want government aid around every corner. Some want health care, others want more welfare and unemployment benefits, housing opportunities, tax deductions for the lower 50% (who by the way only pay 2% of America’s income taxes!) This large government involvement is partially responsible for why the Feds have become so powerful to write up bills like this. At this point, we almost have no statehood anymore
How is this relevant to the aforementioned “racism” which is the farthest thing from racism I have ever seen. The two stories above I told you about must be racist x20 then, but I don’t consider them to be because it is the truth. I hear many progressives who are anti gun as well as against other constitutional amendments say, “The constitution was signed in the late 1700’s, it doesn’t apply to modern America.” The sad thing is, the more we have deviated from traditional American traditions and tendencies, the more distant our country has become. Decades ago when immigrants flooded to Ellis island, they came for a better life and all had something to contribute. Now they want to PUSH their beliefs on everyone and some still try and complain of oppression. Many Americans just want things to be like America has been since it was born. Which is having no problem with individual beliefs and traditions. Just as long as they aren’t forced upon anybody.
Again, minority groups have fought hard in the 2000’s to get many things. The whole PC issue is garbage because it only applies to traditional America, not anyone else. Since those values have been lost, America has come into debt and in constant conflict externally and most importantly, internally. Is it false? Absolutely not. And if you think it’s racist it’s probably only because you think it is coming from a white man…..and you are the exact problem we have keeping us from being united. Have your church, have your holidays, have your clothing….just don’t take MY pledge of allegiance out of MY children’s’ schools, don’t take MY god out of MY national anthem, and don’t take the meaning out of MY holidays. Why does PC say Merry Christmas is wrong, you have to say Happy Holidays? The Holiday is celebrating the birth of Christ. So what F*cking “Holiday” are you celebrating if you don’t believe in him? Just celebrating because it is winter? And I am not referencing to the Jews either because they do get recognition for having a real holiday during this time of the year and I respect them for that. They have had a tradition and have followed it. Now minority groups who don’t believe in Christmas make me not say it. Absolute BS. These traditions were here long before them, you, me, anybody. Stop trying to take them away. They are ours. It’s what started America. If you don’t like it, leave. But let us have OUR holidays and beliefs, we aren’t hurting you anymore than you are hurting me with your holidays and beliefs……That’s all any American wants and no one is willing to give.
These are the reasons why we aren’t united. No one can understand this and compromise.
Umm… So you know… That holiday would be yule. And as far as people leaving… I say you first. It is NOT YOUR pledge of allegiance. The way you talk you don’t deserve to be called American. So take YOUR happy ass to whatever country might have you. Because I doubt the one your ancestors came from would accept you, and I know that I certainly wouldn’t. You wrap yourself in your self-righteousness and opinions. Your type disgusts me.
Morgan… nicely stated.
Beautifully stated. A government of the people, by the people, for the people.
I’m not at all surpised. Everybody needs to get some thigh high boots because the s**t is getting deep in this country.
I’m 17 years old, still in high school learning from only one great class- political science. I think that the resentment between political parties need to stop, that’s truly the civil war right now in this country. It’s so intense that the government decides what each party can and can’t vote on in their ballot. What the heck?? When I register to vote, as well as a great amount of my friends, will be independent. What I have noticed is that so many American citizens don’t even keep up on what’s going on this nation. Especially a LOT of teachers who belong to the union and are told exactly what to vote. Voting has essentially lost all meaning and importance. Being in a mostly idiotic liberal state, I feel as my vote doesn’t even matter. I think we need to redo the voting system.
I also think that we need to get rid of everyone in the big 3 houses and start from scratch. I honestly think there will be civil war, I just hope it can wait till I’m 18 so I can move to Texas and legally be able to take up arms. What the politicians are missing is reality. They become incredibly corrupted spending so much time in their little bubble of politics that they forget what really needs to change and be done. But this nation doesn’t need MORE government in our lives, we need a significant amount less. A couple of my unbiased teachers showed us how in economic downfalls a communist or socialist minded politician will rear their ugly little head and try to take over the country, of course they gave me examples and names of which I will not say because of this crap bill they just passed. Even though I don’t agree with their thinking I do not want them to have their freedom taken. All in all I think the citizens of this nation just need to step up, become educated and become valued voters. We can see how it turned out having Obama be elected based on his color instead of what he stood for. Too quick to jump on the race wagon. I hope that my generation will come to their senses and help to bring this nation back to it’s rightful glory.
( I think I just wrote most of my analytical essay haha sweet 🙂 )
I too, PeopleAreStupid, did just what you’re going to do. I registered Independent when I turned 18. Over time I realized that if I wanted to have any influence in changing the my county’s (not country) conservative bent, I’d have to register as a Democrat. I couldn’t vote one way or the other in the primary elections. If I wanted my voice to count and help influence more left thinkers in our county, I’d have to be a democrat for that to happen.
And you’re right. The only way things will change is if we get rid of everyone and start over. But that’s not likely to happen. Ever.
I agree that we need to (as a nation) step up and become educated voters. Unfortunately, the “education” that our youths are getting is the propaganda that is handed to them. Our children are unprepared for the rhetoric and propaganda that is becoming imbued in our society. What we need is to teach our country how to see past rhetoric and opinions. Otherwise, all of the “education” that they are going to get, is actually “indoctrination”.
Taking drastic action would only support a decision to institute martial law. We, the people, must prepare for such an event to take place, but hope it never does. In fact, we should all be writing to and talking with our congressmen to ensure that we are represented in their decisions. They may not listen, but that is a necessary risk to prevent widespread chaos.
Nicely stated.
First of all, I’d just like to point out that, in the future, the bill can be translated differently to suit their purposes, as it has been done in the past.
Now that’s out of the way, and I can state that this won’t happen as long a we the people are against it. congress seems to think they have some ridiculous power over the people, when it is us who hire them, it is us who can take them out of office, because we have the right to. We did that with governors in the past, we can certainly change the entire senate if we really wanted to.
In the most extreme circumstances, we even nave the right to overthrow the government, should the majority of the nation feel that we are no longer america. I think the people at the top need to realize what little power they actually have, and stop trying to take power that’s not theirs to begin with.
Fear. Mongering.
I understand Alexa, and yes, am completely greatful for the separation of powers motif our government is modeled on, however; some of us are still a little thrown off by the obvious attempts of those in power (in this case congress) to try to supress the voices and dissent of Americans against what is quite clearly an abuse of power by so many hands on so many levels in this country. They dont want us waking up too fast, they want to get richer still before they inevitably destroy our country!!!!
i think everyone needs to wake up. If this isn’t happening now, it very well could. At this point I trust neither party to protect our Constitutional rights. They are being chipped away again and again. Corporations control us. We will do what they want, or else.
What you need to realize is this:
The U.S government is not here to provide rights to it’s citizens. It exists solely to appease the entities that give it the means to exist. The Fed ( World Bank ) and Corporations enable our government to exist.
America is a CONSUMER. America does not export goods that other countries need. We are a giant hulking behemoth that is a resource hog. We are the 700 lb gorilla in the room. We have the technology and the means to stop all of the socio-economincal problems that plague this planet but we dont…. why? America thrives off inefficiency and problems and turmoil.
America needs to keep going to war because we have no other mearns to make money. Defense contractors need a new enemy every day to create weapons to battle…
Endless war is our policy. The Blue Blood families that exist will go to any means to keep themselves in power….they will kill anyone and untold amounts of human life to keep this process in motion…they do not have any empathy for their actions…. just look at death toll in iraq and afghanistan… tolling over 1 million people….. this is the new age holocaust. If future human civilizations exist they will look back at America as we “look back” at Germany.
The human race is a disgrace to organisms.
For those railing against our President he is the one that has threatened veto of a bill that was co-written by their darling John McCain which is something they are conveniently forgetting.
Bush set America up for failure. Obama has run it into the ground. I’m sure your dumbass will vote for him again. This forum will be reality by the end of his second term.
Thank you for ruining MY country. Voting for Obama again is going to do that.
Will it be challenged? Sure. But anybody who challenges it may be accused of conspiracy against the US and find themselve indefinitly detained. That’s the problem with these sort of liberty killing laws. They give govt way too much power.
There’s just one thing I want to say to everyone in this thread:
What if you’re wrong?
What if you don’t know all there is to know?
What if you don’t really understand the situations you talk about deeply enough to draw final conclusions?
What if something else is more true?
What if your antagonists are right?
I ask only that you Think About It. If you don’t, that is the path to becoming brainwashed (and you will be convinced that it is the others that are brainwashed.)
People need to realize that this bill is completely outright unconstitutional, and if it even goes into effect, once challenged it will never hold up. We have a Supreme Court for times like these when Congress tries to pass bills like this one. The Supreme Court has already ruled that detaining a civilian in a military prison and trying them in a military court is unconstitutional back in the 1860’s in a case called Ex Parte Milligan. It angers me that people don’t understand that Congress is not the final say on everything. If this bill was passed, it would still be up to the President to enforce it because he is commander-in-chief of the army, and if Obama wants any shot at re-election he won’t even sign this bill, never mind enforce it. Everyone needs to realized there are 3 branches of government, and bills that are just outright unconstitutional will just not stand up against the branch designed to interpret the Constitution.
Well said.
Although I agree there’s a lot of “panic” in the article, I think Josh is right. Don’t panic. That will just give the gov “justification” to follow through.
As for the bill saying “only terrorist connection” folks are subject, its wording DOES let them do this to ANYONE. Here’s how:
So, let’s pretend I’m a cop. I’m going to haul in “don’t believe media guy” for questioning. The bill states its with discretion. So, even though Don’t Believe was NO WHERE NEAR involved, and keeps saying just that, I used my “discretion” and have “reason to suspect” I can detain him INDEFINATELY for “questioning”. No lawyer. No right to remain silent. AAAAND I can do ALL those “fun” things (stated in the bill) to Don’t Believe to “get info”. That’s the worry. We KNOW for a FACT that they’ve been erroding our right with some shaddy business for a while now. What makes you think they’re going to “turn good” and “look out” for their people now?
This website is completely blowing it out of proportion. If you read the bill (and they give you the link above) it says anyone connected to the September 11, 2001 Terrorists attacks and goes on to list that they mean anyone involved in the planning, attacks and/or anyone who harbored someone who had to do with the attacks on the US. This site just wants to scare you.
And how are they supposed to determine whether or not you, Don’t Believe Everything Media Says, are NOT involved in the Sept 11 terrorist attacks? That’s the point. Simply because you mention 9/11 could raise a flag and you could find yourself detained indefinitely.
Attention American public servants:
From the White House to the local city council, it is the job of public servants to do just that, to serve the American public. Your only job is to protect the rights and property of American citizens and nothing else.
We do not need you to bailout corporations or foreign countries. We will help who we want without you.
We do not need you to create a police state in the name of public safety. We can and will protect ourselves.
We do not need you to create a confusing taxation system that you ignore as you bleed us dry. We will pay for infrastructure and military protection, but not your private islands, jets, and illegal alien servants.
We do not need you to spend our hard earned money as though the supply were limitless. We need you to spend our tax dollars responsibly and frugally.
We do not need you to regulate the trivial while ignoring the obvious. We know the difference and we are fed up.
American politicians, if you cannot do your job ethically and responsibly, we do not need you.
Kate
Read name.
another note what makes money in america and big ones WAR the government is starting a war on its own people to raise money they put them selves in. look up FEMA camps it shows that the government will lock you away to rehibilitate us citizens how do you rehibilitate us citizens in cages and lock away in the cold they are plannng and we need to plan to
Kyleeeeee………you need some serious writing skills! Just don’t even type anymore until you learn how to express your thoughts. No one knows what the hell you are saying.
But this is another prime example of a ‘great’ American.
You complain about being broke and the mean old government not giving you anything but look how educated you are. Did you even finish high school? Or did you go the ‘cool’ way and get a GED? That’s some serious 6th grade talent my friend. No wonder you are broke. Who would hire you when you write like that on a job application.
But it’s not your fault is it?
im 18 got nothing due to the economy have no way to go to college living beetween friends this bill, or marshall law that is trying to be past shows what the government shows they want you to feel scared to give your rights up so then they can support gentic testing and other crap the government hides and then you wont have any say in it
Kyle, let us grownups talk. It is pretty sad that those are your writing skills at the age of 18. You definitely need college.
So…..Just do what everyone else does. Take out a Federal Student Aid loan. Also file for a couple of grants. Then go to college on the governments dime (my tax dollars). Once you start school, file for unemployment so you can have plenty of beer money and party through college.
Finally, IF you graduate. Gather in protest and complain to the government that you are poor. Meanwhile you have a brand new iPhone in your hand, taking protest videos, and a nice LCD flat screen TV at home…..but not a cent of that student loan (my tax dollars) are paid back.
That’s what 80% of the college students participating in the Occupy bullshit have done. It’s the new American way. Take money from others and then complain when you don’t get any more.
@Say What: You’re a fucking prick. Give the kid a break, your English skills aren’t so hot either. Try proofreading before posting. Oh, and take that broomstick out of your ass.
So, you’re a grown-up huh? I grown-up what? Moron? Willingly ignorant?
Well, regardless of what it is that you think you are a grown-up of, your viewpoints appear to based on a lot of false premises (actually, almost all of what you posted seems like a pretty twisted perspective based on things you might have been told, but are just plain lies). I support kyle. Well, at least kind-of. I support his right to protest something that he believes is wrong. I support his desire to make accountable the “privileged”.
I am part of the 99% (though apparently only like 3% of it). Truthfully, anyone that doesn’t support the occupy movement (at least a little) is apparently a) part of the privileged b) part of the people that the privileged have conned into dragging themselves and everyone else down.
Mr. Thomas,
I have gone down the page and noticed you have been at this thread for some time. Critiquing each comment as you see fit. While I applaud your acknowledgment of civil liberties and freedoms, I do disagree with your comment about the Occupy movement.
Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who are fed up with this organization (if you can call it that). I witnessed at a local University, students gathering to protest their student loans. How is that justified? Should I protest my mortgage? How about my car loan? I have watched many youtube videos of people from the occupy movement. Many of them are quite humorous but so they are intended to be by the interviewer. Others were pro-Occupy and still didn’t catch my interest. This government/administration is worse than many before it and we, as citizens, are certainly paying for it. But to protest things like corporate greed is a pretty biased argument.
Let me explain. I watched one video as an Occupier said, “The top 1% only gets taxes $0.25 to every $1.00 of the American people.” That is so far from the truth that he obviously had no clue. I can’t find current stats but in 2009, the top 1% paid 35% of America’s taxes. The bottom 50% (me included) only paid 2%. How sad is that? Yes they have billions of more dollars than we do, but we have billions of more people than they do. Proportionally, it seems off. The top 1% already pays more than we do and to say, “they are greedy” just because they are wealthy, isn’t justified. Should they pay more to their employees? Absolutely. Should they hand out any more than they already do to anyone outside of their company? No.
Students attending college are doing so by choice, not force. It is said all over the media all the time, college almost isn’t worth attending anymore as it will take years to pay off the debt with the small average salary when starting out. Yet many still go; and no shame to them. But to complain of YOUR loan is ridiculous. Instead of these people complaining they have to pay back money that THEY BORROWED, they should acknowledge that those government loans they took out are largely contributing to the nation’s deficit. I feel we should be protesting them to pay back what they owe. Forget the fact that FAFSA is a low interest government loan; seems ungrateful to complain about that.
To me, from what I have heard and seen, the Occupy movement involves a lot of selfishness and irresponsibility. Yes, our government is extremely flawed right now. But it is not because of corporations who not only pay more taxes than us combined, they are also responsible for many jobs (whatever companies that aren’t overseas).
As a backround….I am an average middle class citizen, on the lower end of the scale. This year I will stand to make a little under $22k after taxes. Thankfully I have a loving wife who is also employed and helps to pay the bills while I attend college. We have a 3 bedroom house and a dog named Finn. My parents are also middle class, my father is the director of sales for a large private travel agency while my mother is an insurance agent for a private insurance firm. They are on the upper end of the middle class scale. However, striving for the “American Dream” they invested their entire life savings into opening up a franchise in their city. It started off very well but has long since tapered off. They HOPE to start writing themselves checks in 2012 after 3 years of making nothing off of their investment. They were told that it would take a year or two to start earning profit after paying employees and eating the initial costs of equipment and supplies.
All that background was for is to prove to you, that we are not privileged. We work very hard for what we have. Yet my family and our friends feel the same as I do and do NOT support the Occupy movement. America truly has less responsibility and work ethics than we once had a few decades ago. Complaining about being broke isn’t going to do anything. Go out and earn it, there are jobs….I know because I have had to look
Interesting…
Your post is wonderful. It explains your position as a “b” from my previous post. The point in the “occupy” movement (not an organization, though there was an organization formed to help support the movement), is to make fiscal changes in our system. Once you are able to reach the upper end of the financial system, things start changing. Because you now have considerably more resources coming in than NEED (this is where many trust-fund failures lose it) to go out, you have options. There are many loopholes in the current system that allow you to take advantage of things like buying real estate and then allowing public use (though you still own it), and have to pay next to nothing on it, and get a tax advantage from it. This is just one of MANY options. I know this for a fact, as I take advantage of some of those loopholes myself (I worked my butt off since I was barely a teen). This said, the exact figure that he gave you is most likely incorrect, but certainly not in the wrong neighborhood.
The fact that you somehow believe that the “occupy” movement is all about forgiveness of student loans shows that you are just taking what is being fed to you (eg. propaganda). The movement is not complaining about being poor, the movement is about people playing by the same fiscal rules.
I really believe that you fall into the “b” category, though, there is a third “c) Just too ignorant to care” category that I had not thought to mention earlier.
P.S. Just to be clear, I may not be part of the 1%, but well within the 4%. I work hard, am good at what I do, and have been doing it for a LONG time.
I can’t believe what I’m reading. The reason we are losing our rights is because we can not come together united. We continue to to fight against ourselves and with each passing min. We lose more freedoms. Its not about Obama nor Republicans or Democrats, its about big government. We as a nation, are damned. I’m a patriot and love my Country, I’ve bleed for it and would again if called. On the other hand, I hate my gov. And will not follow this police state dictatorship. Anyone that voted for this new bill needs to be arrested and held as a act of treason. When you give the military such power then all is lost. What will stop them from passing more laws and powers. Do you really thing the government cares about you in any way. Our Nation was founded to give the people its power, so our government should fear us. I swore to protect my Country from any enemy, foreign or domestic.
You’re right. We are no longer America, “The Melting Pot.” We are America, “The Sea of Sharks.”
What has happened is minority groups have cried discrimination and pulled the race card for so many years that not only were they given full rights, they were overcompensated for and given greater power than any normal American. Now all of these minority groups have taken and taken and forced things upon others that wouldn’t have been forced upon them. It has turned into an all out turf war. I have to be ok with a Mosque down in NY near the 9/11 site but the pledge of allegiance has been taken out of school because it has the word “god” in it. Not only that but it is now acceptable to not stand for the National Anthem. It’s almost considered a bold statement that is respected.
All of those aforementioned issues are what is tearing America apart. They should all be crimes. We need to go back to our roots when we were happy and prospering. Decades ago anyone who didn’t stand for the Star Spangled Banner would have been locked up. It should be that way. Don’t come to a country and use it for everything it offers and not pay any respect. Completely ungrateful. Do you say thank you when you get a present on your birthday? Or do you just look at the person and walk away? No respect in America anymore. Selfish sharks
Wow. So basically, Jamie is saying we should stop arguing about petty differences and come together. Then Agreed comes in and makes a whole bunch of incredibly racist and downright ignorant comments in response. Agreed, you are totally and completely missing the point.
Apparently you are missing the point. Nothing in the previous statement is racist. Speaking the truth of the way the country has acted is racist?
Here’s a fact. Ohio State University’s Dental school, one of the largest in the nation, has over 1700 applicants each class and only 315 seats. Ohio State as a whole has decided that they want to focus on more African American and Hispanic acceptances than Asians and Whites. White males are now only guaranteed 30% of the seats for that program. I have a friend who is much farther ahead of me who applied with a 3.75 GPA. He went and took his DAT (dental application test) with his African American female friend who had a 3.4 GPA. He scored higher than she did. Not saying she did bad, but he did better. Guess who got accepted. Not him. How is that fair?
So now we are making people doctors not because of their talents but because of their race. Another story, Dayton, OH was on the news about 4-5 months ago when it was announced that they are throwing out the entrance exam for becoming a police officer and only doing interviews because the state feels there are not enough African Americans on the force. Many were called back who had previously FAILED the test, not even scored high enough to apply and they were hired. A month later a mentally disabled child was maced, hog tied, and throw in the back of a police car while he was playing outside in front of his home. His mother and the neighbors came out trying to explain his condition but the officer wouldn’t listen. His reasoning……”He was disrespecting me.” Because of the child’s disability and its associated speech impediment, the officer thought the child was taunting him, or disrespecting him. A direct result of a failed system.
Now when referring to Jamie’s “come together with limited government” post. That is what progressive America has lost sight of. They want government aid around every corner. Some want health care, others want more welfare and unemployment benefits, housing opportunities, tax deductions for the lower 50% (who by the way only pay 2% of America’s income taxes!) This large government involvement is partially responsible for why the Feds have become so powerful to write up bills like this. At this point, we almost have no statehood anymore
How is this relevant to the aforementioned “racism” which is the farthest thing from racism I have ever seen. The two stories above I told you about must be racist x20 then, but I don’t consider them to be because it is the truth. I hear many progressives who are anti gun as well as against other constitutional amendments say, “The constitution was signed in the late 1700’s, it doesn’t apply to modern America.” The sad thing is, the more we have deviated from traditional American traditions and tendencies, the more distant our country has become. Decades ago when immigrants flooded to Ellis island, they came for a better life and all had something to contribute. Now they want to PUSH their beliefs on everyone and some still try and complain of oppression. Many Americans just want things to be like America has been since it was born. Which is having no problem with individual beliefs and traditions. Just as long as they aren’t forced upon anybody.
Again, minority groups have fought hard in the 2000’s to get many things. The whole PC issue is garbage because it only applies to traditional America, not anyone else. Since those values have been lost, America has come into debt and in constant conflict externally and most importantly, internally. Is it false? Absolutely not. And if you think it’s racist it’s probably only because you think it is coming from a white man…..and you are the exact problem we have keeping us from being united. Have your church, have your holidays, have your clothing….just don’t take MY pledge of allegiance out of MY children’s’ schools, don’t take MY god out of MY national anthem, and don’t take the meaning out of MY holidays. Why does PC say Merry Christmas is wrong, you have to say Happy Holidays? The Holiday is celebrating the birth of Christ. So what F*cking “Holiday” are you celebrating if you don’t believe in him? Just celebrating because it is winter? And I am not referencing to the Jews either because they do get recognition for having a real holiday during this time of the year and I respect them for that. They have had a tradition and have followed it. Now minority groups who don’t believe in Christmas make me not say it. Absolute BS. These traditions were here long before them, you, me, anybody. Stop trying to take them away. They are ours. It’s what started America. If you don’t like it, leave. But let us have OUR holidays and beliefs, we aren’t hurting you anymore than you are hurting me with your holidays and beliefs……That’s all any American wants and no one is willing to give.
These are the reasons why we aren’t united. No one can understand this and compromise.
Umm… So you know… That holiday would be yule. And as far as people leaving… I say you first. It is NOT YOUR pledge of allegiance. The way you talk you don’t deserve to be called American. So take YOUR happy ass to whatever country might have you. Because I doubt the one your ancestors came from would accept you, and I know that I certainly wouldn’t. You wrap yourself in your self-righteousness and opinions. Your type disgusts me.
Morgan… nicely stated.
Beautifully stated. A government of the people, by the people, for the people.
I’m 17 years old, still in high school learning from only one great class- political science. I think that the resentment between political parties need to stop, that’s truly the civil war right now in this country. It’s so intense that the government decides what each party can and can’t vote on in their ballot. What the heck?? When I register to vote, as well as a great amount of my friends, will be independent. What I have noticed is that so many American citizens don’t even keep up on what’s going on this nation. Especially a LOT of teachers who belong to the union and are told exactly what to vote. Voting has essentially lost all meaning and importance. Being in a mostly idiotic liberal state, I feel as my vote doesn’t even matter. I think we need to redo the voting system.
I also think that we need to get rid of everyone in the big 3 houses and start from scratch. I honestly think there will be civil war, I just hope it can wait till I’m 18 so I can move to Texas and legally be able to take up arms. What the politicians are missing is reality. They become incredibly corrupted spending so much time in their little bubble of politics that they forget what really needs to change and be done. But this nation doesn’t need MORE government in our lives, we need a significant amount less. A couple of my unbiased teachers showed us how in economic downfalls a communist or socialist minded politician will rear their ugly little head and try to take over the country, of course they gave me examples and names of which I will not say because of this crap bill they just passed. Even though I don’t agree with their thinking I do not want them to have their freedom taken. All in all I think the citizens of this nation just need to step up, become educated and become valued voters. We can see how it turned out having Obama be elected based on his color instead of what he stood for. Too quick to jump on the race wagon. I hope that my generation will come to their senses and help to bring this nation back to it’s rightful glory.
( I think I just wrote most of my analytical essay haha sweet 🙂 )
I too, PeopleAreStupid, did just what you’re going to do. I registered Independent when I turned 18. Over time I realized that if I wanted to have any influence in changing the my county’s (not country) conservative bent, I’d have to register as a Democrat. I couldn’t vote one way or the other in the primary elections. If I wanted my voice to count and help influence more left thinkers in our county, I’d have to be a democrat for that to happen.
And you’re right. The only way things will change is if we get rid of everyone and start over. But that’s not likely to happen. Ever.
I agree that we need to (as a nation) step up and become educated voters. Unfortunately, the “education” that our youths are getting is the propaganda that is handed to them. Our children are unprepared for the rhetoric and propaganda that is becoming imbued in our society. What we need is to teach our country how to see past rhetoric and opinions. Otherwise, all of the “education” that they are going to get, is actually “indoctrination”.
Taking drastic action would only support a decision to institute martial law. We, the people, must prepare for such an event to take place, but hope it never does. In fact, we should all be writing to and talking with our congressmen to ensure that we are represented in their decisions. They may not listen, but that is a necessary risk to prevent widespread chaos.
Nicely stated.
Fear. Mongering.
For those railing against our President he is the one that has threatened veto of a bill that was co-written by their darling John McCain which is something they are conveniently forgetting.
Bush set America up for failure. Obama has run it into the ground. I’m sure your dumbass will vote for him again. This forum will be reality by the end of his second term.
Thank you for ruining MY country. Voting for Obama again is going to do that.
I’m an American who is sad that we have problems like this. We should be better but our people and out government fight over everything. I have no idea how we can fix this. It seems as though this may be the best that it can get. Out representatives don’t represent us, and there are no good alternatives to the same phony canidates. Something needs to shake us from this cycle.
I also feel sad as a Dutch citizen for your country and what it once stood for. I also feel disappointment towards your fellow man, because all of this has been caused by US-citizens. Instead of working together as a singular species towards a unified common goal, you have instead become a virus unto your own people and our planet. You are destroying everything that stands in your path – even if that ”something” happens to be yourselves. And indeed, a nation of sheep have created a government of wolves.
We (in Europe) also have countries where the Lie Reigns, especially the eastern-Europe countries and we in The Netherlands have to be aware of the dangers of it, but all nations, most of the time, have the governments they asked for, so deserve. Tell me, what country chose a former filmstar as a governor. This would go beyond my sense of self-respect, if I were an American.
And let’s be honest: It is the people of the US that created their own unscrupulous government. A nation, that is used to have their lawn mowed, their driveway kept snow free, and their houses kept clean by cheap Mexican men and women. 99 % of the Dutch even’t have a driveway, we keep our homes clean by doing it ourselves. Seems to me a bit like a spoiled and extravagant nation. Is there any country in the world that buys so much cheap Chinese junk around Christmas time? Apart from the fact, that they have forgotten the real essence of Christmas.
@Jonathan: if you watched Europe a bit more closely, you’d discover that even “Western” EEC member states are drifting toward both (1) socialism and (2) totalitarianism. Look at (1) Germany governed by a socialist-educated, Russian-but not-English-speaking housewife from the East, look at Sweden’s repeated violations of human rights (i e Homeschooling, guaranteed in the ECHR and in the UN Charter), the blocking of “anti-Swedish” action in the ECHR court by one particularly corrupt court official & more. Also note that (2) the ENTIRE “European Union” is an executive-only event with national Parliaments constantly left redundant and with no real parliament of its own.
Also realise that it was Slovakia (in the East, of all places) trying to stop the EFSF and that Estonia and are having favourable VAT regimes toward precious Metals. That said, it turns out that EFTA members Switzerland and Norway even provide tax-free gold and silver http://goldsilver.ecopen.com/ and also are some of the last places for Liberty on this continent or the entire North Atlantic corner of the world…
No, we should as well feel sorry for ourselves, aggravated of course by the fact that “The America” as we knew it, the land of Liberty, due process, limited constitutional government is gone. The Obama administration finalised transforming that country from a bastion of freedom to a place of authorities increasingly terrorising its citizens. That “former movie star” President you referred to actually did a MUCH BETTER job for the old America of Liberty. Also note, that Iceland currently is run by a flight attendant and a lorry driver — not to mention proud Italy down there…
For Chinese imports, wake up and realise that this has become Business as Usual everywhere, including Europe, including The Netherlands, Germany or France.
You might also want to note that your fellow countryman Glen Beck of http://www.gbtv.com/ cares a lot about traditional values including Christmas and Thanksgiving in the U. S. and that there still are residual groups (Christians and conservative Jews) and not-so-religious Libertarians trying to stem those sadder developments: Ron Paul, Michelle Bachman, Herman Cain, Senators Jim deMint (SC), Rand Paul (KY), Mike Lee (NV) to name just a few. Add to this some of the true ENTREPRENEURIAL capitalists like Robert Kiyosaki, Ken Roberts, Peter Schiff, Donald Trump (as opposed to managerial capitalism of the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, Nazi-Germany, Socialist Sweden or today’s Enron and Monsanto-Mafia in the U. S.) and you will see that a more differentiated approach will get us a lot further than just a simplistic America vs the “good countries” opinion.
There’s just one thing I want to say to everyone in this thread:
What if you’re wrong?
What if you don’t know all there is to know?
What if you don’t really understand the situations you talk about deeply enough to draw final conclusions?
What if something else is more true?
What if your antagonists are right?
I ask only that you Think About It. If you don’t, that is the path to becoming brainwashed (and you will be convinced that it is the others that are brainwashed.)
3 cheers to living in Texas! Hip hip! …
Can I come live down there too and start shooting anyone I see hopping the border? That is the last surviving state. We need to fence it in and all earning tax payers move there. The rest of the country can ban guns, give as much unemployment and welfare as they want. Socialize the health care system all you want and legalize all the weed you want. I promise the top 40% of us could give up our jobs, trade positions with people in the bottom 50% (only if they reside in Texas though because that is our new country) and we could make more money than before. All because we will have a flourishing economy while everyone else is recklessly spending and hardly working.
All kidding aside. I seriously see this country in another civil war. The top 50% will move east and the bottom 50% move west. There is more than just “no jobs” that attributes to their lower income….A LOT MORE
Attention American public servants:
From the White House to the local city council, it is the job of public servants to do just that, to serve the American public. Your only job is to protect the rights and property of American citizens and nothing else.
We do not need you to bailout corporations or foreign countries. We will help who we want without you.
We do not need you to create a police state in the name of public safety. We can and will protect ourselves.
We do not need you to create a confusing taxation system that you ignore as you bleed us dry. We will pay for infrastructure and military protection, but not your private islands, jets, and illegal alien servants.
We do not need you to spend our hard earned money as though the supply were limitless. We need you to spend our tax dollars responsibly and frugally.
We do not need you to regulate the trivial while ignoring the obvious. We know the difference and we are fed up.
American politicians, if you cannot do your job ethically and responsibly, we do not need you.
Kate
Read name.
For those of you posting against Americans….Obama IS NOT what the average American wants…..the liberals and idiots of America have chosen him, and he is likely to be re-elected because of the minorities wanting HAND OUTS, NOT A HAND UP… this is NOT who we are…the media and George Soros backing this is the DOWNFALL of America. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover…real Americans are doing their best to keep things on track – despite our government, which DOES NOT reflect the PEOPLE.
•Number of States won by: Obama:19 McCain: 29•Square miles of land won by: Obama:580,000 McCain: 2,427,000•Population of counties won by: Obama:127million McCain: 143 million•Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama: 13.2 McCain: 2.1Professor Olson adds: “In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.
You have the best post on here. I agree with you 100%. It is now ok to not stand for the National Anthem, the pledge of allegiance has left our schools and if you want more money you don’t have to work harder; you just protest. America is a shit storm all because of the minority groups that called white men racist for the last couple of decades. So we eventually gave them more power than we ever had and look what has happened. Millions of illegals are receiving under the table wages and stealing BILLIONS in income taxes from the US. And now they want amnesty? I don’t want to give them shit. Do it right or get the F out. Imagine what a country like Russia or Korea would do with a problem like this. These people would be locked away for years and never heard from.
Now the Occupy protests have started. Why? Because all of us earning taxpayers have run dry lining these peoples pockets with free checks and therefore they are running dry. NOW it’s a problem. They take and take and take and never care who it comes from. The top 1% of America pays 35% of our nations income taxes. The bottom 50% pays only 2%. Decades ago America was a happy, friendly, prosperous place. Remember when we were called the Melting Pot? Now it is the, everyone for yourselves pot. If you are NOT white then claim race and get everything you can. Back when those, “Rich Racist White Men” were running America decades ago, handouts were extremely limited and people worked hard; America prospered.
All you have to do now is be a minority and get a job someone else is more qualified for but is white, or apply to a college program where the average white male needs a 3.7 GPA to get in and you only have to have a 3.2….Ohio State Dental school fits the bill.
So don’t work hard, money is free. And don’t be white, you’re racist and disadvantaged. ……I’ll be prepared when the country collapses and I will say, “I saw this coming years ago.” I won’t go down with it, however. I’m sure of that.
Uh, Obama is EXACTLY what the average American wants. Someone who cares about America. We’re tired of the war mongering republicans. Its time to fix HOME.
Adam are you serious? Do you even pay attention to anything that happens in America?
What was Obama’s famous campaign speech? Oh that’s right, “I will have ALL TROOP withdrawn from the middle east within 12 months of my inauguration.”
What happened the following year? He followed Bush’s surge into Iraq and sent a surge into Afghanistan. Now tell me if I am wrong but I thought a surge is the exact opposite of withdraw. Silly me, I must be mistaken So the only war mongerer I see is Obama who is only 3 years late on his promise.
We don’t even need to get started on his socialist health care plan or how he would rather sell out his country to win votes. Oh you mean I can spend BILLIONS of dollars giving amnesty to illegals who are already stealing BILLIONS in under the table, non taxable income? Sure, why not. I mean it’s the “moral” thing to do, right? So now we can be just as poor as them. Without giving ourselves the chance to recoup and then bring them into a better life. But hey, at least he will get to be president for another term….regardless of who he lies to and hurts.
Adam, I personally thank you for ruining MY country. I’m sure you will vote for Obama again. The occupy BS and this Bill isn’t half of what will happen in his 2nd term. Just watch. And thanks to people like you, our fate is locked. Good work….bravo
@muse and at @true: It is totally TRUE that [muse] is right on, and I second this, too. Tried to elaborate on this by including a couple of points from both sides of the Atlantic and putting things into “North-Atlantic” perspective — because actually the problems are the same: bureaucrats and the executive alone taking over ALL BRANCHES of government (this is not the idea of Checks and Balances, neither in the U. S. nor in Germany which inherited its post-war constitution from the “old” U. S. of Liberty). Another reason for me to point to Switzerland and Norway (non-EU countries stemming the tide of European totalitarianism in their very own ways within that little-known counter organization called EFTA
Whether or not Senate passes this bill has NOTHING to do with Obama. He either signs or vetos a bill AFTER it goes through Senate and House. While they can override his decision by a separate vote, Obama’s opinion on this bill is not taken into consideration during this due process.
Furthermore, he has promised to veto it. It’s you Republican assholes that will jump on him for doing so.
So actually YES, Obama IS the president that the average American needs AND WANTS.
What does history class have to do with checks and balances? It’s simple political science. It’s not history because it is a current system.
BTW…this bill was snuck in the back door just like Obama did with his health care plan. I for one don’t agree with this and this is the biggest mistake the right has made all term.
I just want a few things: For it to be mandatory to have all American traditions back and English be the only language. By traditions I mean, “So help me god” “One nation under god”…stand for the anthem….the pledge is sung in schools….etc. This is America, founded on beliefs that once made us great. Since we have strayed from them, we have become lost. Bring them back. If you don’t want to pay your respect and pledge your allegiance, then get out because you are ungrateful. If I said to my grandmother after she gave me a present for Christmas, “This is great! But I don’t have to say thank you, it’s my right.” She would spank my ass all the way out the door. Of course I wouldn’t say that though, I know better and could never be that disrespectful to anyone.
Also, unemployment needs to be lowered to 6 months and eventually to 3. Welfare recipients MUST take drug tests; the more frequent the better. And no amnesty for illegals UNTIL we get ourselves in check. We simply can’t afford to spend billions bringing them in when we are in this shape. They are also keeping millions out of jobs. We can bring them in when we aren’t bankrupt. Until then, sweep them out to give AMERICANS jobs. Those millions of jobs going to AMERICANS will begin to give billions in income tax that we aren’t getting from illegals.
And I keep hearing, “They take all of the jobs Americans don’t want to do.” Not true because once those jobs open up, job placement agencies will start filling them in with people on the unemployment lists. And if those people don’t want to do them, then tough shit. No more unemployment for you. You see how all of this adds up to billions and billions and soon to trillions.
Enough with the catering. Time to start earning your stay folks.
what happened to democracy? the PEOPLE having a say? that is what democracy is. WHERE IS AMERICA???? Are we destined for civil war again???? ludicrous
In subtitle D sec 1032 it does clearly state that in the requirements for military custody are for those individuals that have been found to be planning, abetting, or actively involved with known terrorist activities or organizations can be detained until “the end of the conflict” with the associated aforementioned groups. This clearly does not give a definite period of time for detaining these people. It also states that citizens and legal aliens are not covered under these rules or stipulations but are covered under already established laws and acts already set forth. So what then is set forth already to deal with us?? and if you are a citizen who is a sympathizer, then on which side of the law do you fall? You don’t automatically lose your citizenship, and who knows how long it would really take to be properly detained if you are involved with a ” conspiracy”? Most of this bill is a proposed budget for the military spending for the next fiscal year. Why then do you need clarification on proper procedures for detaining suspected terrorist activities? It looks like to me just another set up for the infamous red tape that the government can use to achieve what ever ends it feel justified in meting out to whomever they want whenever they want. If you want a budget, then do a budget. If you want to deal with terrorism, then do that. Don’t try and mix the two together as you will only end up giving the terrorists a way out in the long run to eventually come back at us again with even more of an agenda. 8)
The war on Terror and other things seems to be unbalanced.
Your knowledge is unbalanced. Read my reply to your comment about whether we are in the middle east for oil or not. You silly liberal hypocrite. Are you able to ever do anything besides complain? Or could you use some of that energy to propose a better solution? That is all I ever hear from anyone is complain complain criticize criticize. Am I saying your criticism is unjust? No. But I am tired of the whining. Lets hear proposals. But again, you and the others that bitch about us being there for oil. If you really feel it’s wrong then here is how you can protest it. Stop driving, stop using the water that comes out of your sink that was made clean by the plant running on oil, stop using any product made with plastics because they are made with oil, stop using electricity because the machines making it run on oil, stop buying the food at your local grocery store that was shipped on a truck using oil and also packaged in a factory with machines using oil, again with plastics; throw away your cell phone and tv and stereo and iPod and iPad, don’t sit on any of your fabric furniture because that was made by machines on oil (even the stitching done by electric sewing machines that got their electricity from oil, unless if your wooden furniture was carved by hand then throw it away, make sure even that carved furniture was made with wood that was cut down with a saw that was made by hand and not a chainsaw….that saw must have been forged by hand and sharpened by hand. Your entire life will be over without oil
You don’t like the US being in the middle east for oil….whether we are or aren’t doesn’t matter. What does matter is how big of a hypocrite you are. Refuse to use any product made with or by a machine that uses oil if you are so moral. Otherwise shut up with that BS argument that we are only in the middle east for oil. Forgetting that their radical beliefs cut off journalists heads and flew airplanes into buildings. Watch the movie “The Kingdom” with Jamie Fox. That type of shit was real ever before 9/11. I have a friend who was a dentist for one of the American oil companies. The oil workers worked and lived in small towns that were fenced and guarded 24/7. He worked as the towns dentist and loved it every day. He said he would wake up, ride his bike down the road to his clinic and only have to work until 3. Once his twin daughters were born, Islamic radicals started sending decapitated heads to the gate with threatening video tapes. It got to the point where he lined the floors of his attic with bullet proof vests and stashed water and food. Then he decided it wasn’t worth it anymore and left. But I guess killing in the name of god isn’t just something stupid people did in history. Even today, the “all loving Allah” will reward murder and suicide. Good stuff….. Oh yea, Fuck the US and it’s war on oil. says, DW (Dark Wing Duck)
If you think that the US is in the Middle East for the oil you are very much mistaken, and you need to get your head out of your ass. Most American need to actually. Shut your TV and try to find some information. This is why you have the internet….
I’ll give you candy if you find any info.
I hope you weren’t referring to me about thinking we are there for oil.
I said that is not true. But even if it was….I told them to try living life without it while they complain about us being there for oil. They wouldn’t live.
But I KNOW we aren’t there for it. Many people forget when a group of people flew airplanes into buildings and killed thousands of people. Remember the news showing neighborhoods across the country with American flags raised in every yard? America had never been closer.
Then when Bush made his speech, “On my orders, American forces have begun strikes on the Taliban Regime…..” The US was cheering for days, except for a small group of hippie liberals strung out on weed and LSD who complain about everything the government does. Then a year later, like every American is good for, people got tired of it. America has no dedication anymore. Not for anything. If someone doesn’t like their job, they’ll just quit and go collect unemployment. So now people are just tired of the war. What did they think? It would take a couple weeks?
Our country is doomed
I’m an American who is sad that we have problems like this. We should be better but our people and out government fight over everything. I have no idea how we can fix this. It seems as though this may be the best that it can get. Out representatives don’t represent us, and there are no good alternatives to the same phony canidates. Something needs to shake us from this cycle.
WILL USA SURVIVE?The folks who are getting the free stuff, don’t like the folks who are paying for the free stuff, because the folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff.
The folks who are paying for the free stuff want the free stuff to stop, and the folks who are getting the free stuff want even more free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting!
Now… The people who are forcing the people to pay for the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING the free stuff, that the people who are PAYING for the free stuff, are being mean, prejudiced, and racist.
So… The people who are GETTING the free stuff have been convinced they need to hate the people who are paying for the free stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay for their free stuff, and giving them the free stuff in the first place.
We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long that there are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the free stuff.
Now understand this. All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250 years after being founded. The reason? The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.
The United States officially became a Republic in 1776, 235 years ago. The number of people now getting free stuff outnumbers the people paying for the free stuff. We have one chance to change that In 2012. Failure to change that spells the end of the United States as we know it.
ELECTION 2012 IS COMING
A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!
I’M 100% for PASSING THIS ON!!!
Let’s take a stand!!!
Obama: Gone!
Borders: Closed!
Language: English only
Culture: Constitution, and the Bill of Rights!
Drug Free: Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!
NO freebies to: Non-Citizens!
We the people are coming
Only 86% will send this on. Should be 100%. What will you do?
————————————
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money”. — Margaret Thatcher
that’s exactly my point dumb ass, drop the patriotism and wake up. People all around the world suffer because of American policies. I don’t only blame America, I blame all of the countries that plunder other peoples resources and kill for gold. The reason America is the wealthiest country in the world is because of the vast amounts of resources they legally steal from other countries. Most of these terrorist groups and dictators that the US is chasing after were put in power by the US. The CIA trained paramilitaries throughout South and Central America to protect their interests and topple self sustaining socialist governments. Why does the U.S need to intervene in foreign civil conflicts? Protecting Interests, Not the safety of the people. Did you know that during World War 2, Nazis were buying the fuel they used for their fighter planes directly from Americans? Ive said enough im not hear to heckle anybody about their nationality. But your government is not working in your interests or the interests of people around the world. check these out
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/01/us-apology-guatemala-syphilis-tests
http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/2011/07/27/great-man-made-river-nato-bombs/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKZZoMoi3Xo
Ok you really need to stop posting here and get back to your own problems. You have just proven how ignorant you are and how you will make up anything to try and bash the US. We don’t care about you!
But just to explain why you are dumb:
How does America steal vast amount of resources that other countries are more than happy to sell to us. Set the oil aside for a second. Yes, the oil we are still paying for by the barrel.
America’s biggest weakness is how we import EVERYTHING. Countries across the world are stimulated dramatically by Americas purchase of their resources. Name a country we just up and walked in and took all of their resources. I’m not even going to argue about oil because that is a totally different argument and we didn’t just walk in and take it. We are still paying a shit load for it.
America has been involved in many conflicts. Some just and others unjust. Unlike pussy Europe who couldn’t save itself from an army of 5 year old ballerinas. America refused to enter into WWII and it wasn’t until all countries of Europe crumbled to ONE dictator, that we HAD to step in. Otherwise, we were his next stop and by that point he would have been coming full steam. So you can thank us for that.
The last 2 desert wars we fought in were justified. Kuwait is a funded ally of the US. Sadam invaded their country and began burning THEIR only means of exportation. Without THEIR oil, THEY would be nothing and WE would be nothing. It was a lose-lose. Our hand was forced. Sadam was told not to do it and he did anyway so we came and kicked his arse. We saved ourselves from some serious trouble and Kuwait from being controlled by a madman who would have caused them to go broke after he took their livelihood.
And how about where we are now. Back in the 80’s Sadam used chemical weapons on his OWN people. Then when we wanted to send inspectors to prove he didn’t have any more, he refused. What were we supposed to think? And one regular morning turned into horror as men supported by Sadam hijacked airplanes and flew them into the sides of some big buildings. Thousands died. You know, the same Osama Bin Laden that years earlier tried to blow up the same buildings with a car bomb. What were we going to do, let him try again? Bush (even though he sucked as a president) played it cool and gave Sadam plenty of time to hand over Bin Laden. He refused to cooperate. We took out the dictator and FINALY, it took too long, took out the mad man Bin Laden. However, no one foresaw the Taliban becoming a guerrilla force that would fight like cowards and jeopardize the whole rebuilding process. They won’t even fight, they just place bombs and run away. Many pretend to be civilians and those who actually are civilians are threatened by them every day. Do you know what would happen if we just walked out of there right now? It would be worse than ever before. The Taliban would punish everyone who they knew had helped or even smiled at NATO forces.
Now we have Pakistan who basically harbored Bin Laden for who knows how long. They just announced they will fire at any NATO forces conducting operations over their borders. You know, the same borders that NATO forces watch Taliban cross back and forth over on a regular basis.
So, “lay low” please refute every one of those reasons we went to war and tell me how you would have solved our problem. Because you are a world leader of a world power, you know what we should have done. So please tell me how a coward Euro would have done things. Given them some cheese and wine?
I also feel sad as a Dutch citizen for your country and what it once stood for. I also feel disappointment towards your fellow man, because all of this has been caused by US-citizens. Instead of working together as a singular species towards a unified common goal, you have instead become a virus unto your own people and our planet. You are destroying everything that stands in your path – even if that “something” happens to be yourselves. And indeed, a nation of sheep have created a government of wolves.
We (in Europe) also have countries where the Lie Reigns, especially the eastern-Europe countries and we in The Netherlands have to be aware of the dangers of it, but all nations, most of the time, have the governments they asked for, so deserve. Tell me, what country chose a former filmstar as a governor. This would go beyond my sense of self-respect, if I were an American.
And let’s be honest: It is the people of the US that created their own unscrupulous government. A nation, that is used to have their lawn mowed, their driveway kept snow free, and their houses kept clean by cheap Mexican men and women. 99 % of the Dutch even’t have a driveway, we keep our homes clean by doing it ourselves. Seems to me a bit like a spoiled and extravagant nation. Is there any country in the world that buys so much cheap Chinese junk around Christmas time? Apart from the fact, that they have forgotten the real essence of Christmas.
@Jonathan: if you watched Europe a bit more closely, you’d discover that even “Western” EEC member states are drifting toward both (1) socialism and (2) totalitarianism. Look at (1) Germany governed by a socialist-educated, Russian-but not-English-speaking housewife from the East, look at Sweden’s repeated violations of human rights (i e Homeschooling, guaranteed in the ECHR and in the UN Charter), the blocking of “anti-Swedish” action in the ECHR court by one particularly corrupt court official & more. Also note that (2) the ENTIRE “European Union” is an executive-only event with national Parliaments constantly left redundant and with no real parliament of its own.
Also realise that it was Slovakia (in the East, of all places) trying to stop the EFSF and that Estonia and are having favourable VAT regimes toward precious Metals. That said, it turns out that EFTA members Switzerland and Norway even provide tax-free gold and silver http://goldsilver.ecopen.com/ and also are some of the last places for Liberty on this continent or the entire North Atlantic corner of the world…
No, we should as well feel sorry for ourselves, aggravated of course by the fact that “The America” as we knew it, the land of Liberty, due process, limited constitutional government is gone. The Obama administration finalised transforming that country from a bastion of freedom to a place of authorities increasingly terrorising its citizens. That “former movie star” President you referred to actually did a MUCH BETTER job for the old America of Liberty. Also note, that Iceland currently is run by a flight attendant and a lorry driver — not to mention proud Italy down there…
For Chinese imports, wake up and realise that this has become Business as Usual everywhere, including Europe, including The Netherlands, Germany or France.
You might also want to note that your fellow countryman Glen Beck of http://www.gbtv.com/ cares a lot about traditional values including Christmas and Thanksgiving in the U. S. and that there still are residual groups (Christians and conservative Jews) and not-so-religious Libertarians trying to stem those sadder developments: Ron Paul, Michelle Bachman, Herman Cain, Senators Jim deMint (SC), Rand Paul (KY), Mike Lee (NV) to name just a few. Add to this some of the true ENTREPRENEURIAL capitalists like Robert Kiyosaki, Ken Roberts, Peter Schiff, Donald Trump (as opposed to managerial capitalism of the Soviet Union, Eastern Europe, Nazi-Germany, Socialist Sweden or today’s Enron and Monsanto-Mafia in the U. S.) and you will see that a more differentiated approach will get us a lot further than just a simplistic America vs the “good countries” opinion.
3 cheers to living in Texas! Hip hip! …
Can I come live down there too and start shooting anyone I see hopping the border? That is the last surviving state. We need to fence it in and all earning tax payers move there. The rest of the country can ban guns, give as much unemployment and welfare as they want. Socialize the health care system all you want and legalize all the weed you want. I promise the top 40% of us could give up our jobs, trade positions with people in the bottom 50% (only if they reside in Texas though because that is our new country) and we could make more money than before. All because we will have a flourishing economy while everyone else is recklessly spending and hardly working.
All kidding aside. I seriously see this country in another civil war. The top 50% will move east and the bottom 50% move west. There is more than just “no jobs” that attributes to their lower income….A LOT MORE
Despite what this new bill states, or doesn’t state; or how we choose to interpret it, one thing is true and has been true for the longest time regarding us (US citizens) and our beloved Government: We actually ARE loosing our constitutional rights as Americans.
It does not matter to me if you choose to believe this, or if you choose not to believe this. I really do not care what your thoughts or opinions are. Truth is truth no matter how much you try to lie about it, cover it up, or sugar coat things. This country is heading straight for a major disaster by those people who we have put into power to do right by us. Greed, power and money are what truly runs all those facets that go on behind that proverbial “curtain”, and it’s happening will all the world Governments. Not just our own. Some Governments just choose to display their desire for power and control openly (N. Korea, Iran, China, Etc..).
I feel sad for this country and what it once stood for. I feel disappointment towards my fellow man (not all, but most) because all of this has been caused by us. Instead of working together as a singular species towards a unified common goal, we have instead become a virus unto our own people and planet. We are destroying everything that stands in our path – even if that “something” happens to be ourselves…
Probably the worst part however – the very thing that makes me laugh and nauseous, both at the same time – is how an entire species, “Humanity” (all of us “humans”)… How we seem to have lost just that… Our HUMANITY.
You are absolutely right. The problem with big governments is us citizens lose out freedoms. But here’s the problem. The reason why the government is controlling everything is because of all of the different little minority groups that want EVERYTHING. Obama was voted into office for 2 reasons. 1. because he was black so 99% of black Americans voted for him….great start 2. because he promised many hand outs and also said, “I will have all troops out of the middle east within 12 months of my inauguration.” What happened a year later? He sent a surge into Afghanistan. Bush sent a “surge” to Iraq and Obama followed right in his footsteps. I honestly feel like the only reason Obama has any followers left is because of his race. “He can’t be bad, hes black. Only white people are racist, selfish and corrupt.”
So now we have people wanting to build Mosques near the 9/11 site…sure. Lengthen the unemployment benefits….sure. Allow millions of illegals who are already receiving under the table wages, thus stealing BILLIONS in income taxes from the US, to have amnesty….sure. Start a socialized health care program….sure. Now the government can tell me where and who I need to see as a doctor. This only benefits the people who aren’t working and receiving, or paying for, their health insurance. I pay for my dental insurance out of pocket. Health insurance isn’t much more. So all of these people want and want and take and take and the government is more than happy to feed them to get votes. It is also increasing their control. It is going to blow up in everyone’s face. Including the hardworking tax payers who have disagreed with every one of these situations. I never voted for Obama in the first run and won’t do so for the second. I KNEW he was going to fuck us up so bad. It honestly scared me how many people were drawn into his BS. Our country is in BAD BAD shape. And those of us who make a living without a free check are hurting the most. Because we have run dry, now the non workers have run dry….and of course NOW it’s a problem. The government is happy though because they have more control than they did 3 years ago.
Thank you to everyone who wanted money for yourselves and didn’t care whose pockets it came from. All while empowering the government to put them in a situation like this that will only triple within a couple of years. There is a reason some work hard and earn money and others protest while earning minimum wage or government checks. We will collapse soon and have to rebuild. Rebuild back into America decades ago where all of those “racist white men” who didn’t give handouts to ANYONE had the country prospering.
I love how everyone thinks this site is real. I’m so glad I’m not a moron like all of you and can laugh at this. Tons of bogus sites driving all the retards crazy. I love it.
Look up the word TENET and the word TENANT. I don’t know who or what is a tenant of the Bill of Rights.
If anyone on the side of the author could please post specific parts of this bill that will in any way infringe upon the rights of American citizens that would be very constructive to forming a legitimate debate. Until then, NUU UHHH POOPY HEADS!
No way! How could they do this to America?! I thought this was suppose to be the land of Freedom without war! I think the government’s trying to turn this into a Land of No Freedom at all!
Ok, doing this to American citizens is completely different from doing it to foreigners, and I’m sorry if I sound xenophobic saying it. But quite frankly, America is better than every other country in the world (Although, if shit like this, and the Health Care bill, and our slow slide in to socialism/authoritative communism continues, we won’t be for long).
The following is for all the commenters making snide comments about America:
I’m really sorry if your little bitch country is super patriotic, but the long and short of it is we have the capability to turn your little bitch country in to glass.
And I’m really sorry that the international community thinks that they’re the shit, but America holds together the UN, and NATO, and several of the other defense treaties. Your economies completely depend on ours. If we withdrew from the world, militarily and politically, and especially economically, IT WOULD BE REALLY, REALLY BAD FOR YOU, DUMBASS!
In summation, you tell us not to be “World Police,” yet you are the first people you run crying and bitching to when you need a cop. So, sit there all snug and cozy in your little blanket of Blame-the-US-first warmth. I don’t give a shit. But I want you to think about what happens when America finally gets sick of your crap and we actually withdraw from everywhere.
Ugh shut up
Are you saying shut up because your president (who you voted for stricly because of his race) and his goons, who give you all of your welfare, are being criticised?
Go pump out more babies to get more money. And then when something doesn’t go your way, just pull the race card. It doesn’t matter if you take money from someone else’s pocket, it’s all about you.
Those “racist white men” who ran America decades ago without this type of public had our country prospering. Now it’s all about the minorities and look where we are. We were the richest country in the world and now we are poor.
Does this not compute with any of you? There is no arguing it. You can’t even say I am ignorant for saying it. IT’S THE TRUTH. Thank you all for ruining this country, my home.
For those of you posting against Americans….Obama IS NOT what the average American wants…..the liberals and idiots of America have chosen him, and he is likely to be re-elected because of the minorities wanting HAND OUTS, NOT A HAND UP… this is NOT who we are…the media and George Soros backing this is the DOWNFALL of America. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover…real Americans are doing their best to keep things on track – despite our government, which DOES NOT reflect the PEOPLE.
•Number of States won by: Obama:19 McCain: 29•Square miles of land won by: Obama:580,000 McCain: 2,427,000•Population of counties won by: Obama:127million McCain: 143 million•Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama: 13.2 McCain: 2.1Professor Olson adds: “In aggregate, the map of the territory McCain won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.
You have the best post on here. I agree with you 100%. It is now ok to not stand for the National Anthem, the pledge of allegiance has left our schools and if you want more money you don’t have to work harder; you just protest. America is a shit storm all because of the minority groups that called white men racist for the last couple of decades. So we eventually gave them more power than we ever had and look what has happened. Millions of illegals are receiving under the table wages and stealing BILLIONS in income taxes from the US. And now they want amnesty? I don’t want to give them shit. Do it right or get the F out. Imagine what a country like Russia or Korea would do with a problem like this. These people would be locked away for years and never heard from.
Now the Occupy protests have started. Why? Because all of us earning taxpayers have run dry lining these peoples pockets with free checks and therefore they are running dry. NOW it’s a problem. They take and take and take and never care who it comes from. The top 1% of America pays 35% of our nations income taxes. The bottom 50% pays only 2%. Decades ago America was a happy, friendly, prosperous place. Remember when we were called the Melting Pot? Now it is the, everyone for yourselves pot. If you are NOT white then claim race and get everything you can. Back when those, “Rich Racist White Men” were running America decades ago, handouts were extremely limited and people worked hard; America prospered.
All you have to do now is be a minority and get a job someone else is more qualified for but is white, or apply to a college program where the average white male needs a 3.7 GPA to get in and you only have to have a 3.2….Ohio State Dental school fits the bill.
So don’t work hard, money is free. And don’t be white, you’re racist and disadvantaged. ……I’ll be prepared when the country collapses and I will say, “I saw this coming years ago.” I won’t go down with it, however. I’m sure of that.
Uh, Obama is EXACTLY what the average American wants. Someone who cares about America. We’re tired of the war mongering republicans. Its time to fix HOME.
Adam are you serious? Do you even pay attention to anything that happens in America?
What was Obama’s famous campaign speech? Oh that’s right, “I will have ALL TROOP withdrawn from the middle east within 12 months of my inauguration.”
What happened the following year? He followed Bush’s surge into Iraq and sent a surge into Afghanistan. Now tell me if I am wrong but I thought a surge is the exact opposite of withdraw. Silly me, I must be mistaken So the only war mongerer I see is Obama who is only 3 years late on his promise.
We don’t even need to get started on his socialist health care plan or how he would rather sell out his country to win votes. Oh you mean I can spend BILLIONS of dollars giving amnesty to illegals who are already stealing BILLIONS in under the table, non taxable income? Sure, why not. I mean it’s the “moral” thing to do, right? So now we can be just as poor as them. Without giving ourselves the chance to recoup and then bring them into a better life. But hey, at least he will get to be president for another term….regardless of who he lies to and hurts.
Adam, I personally thank you for ruining MY country. I’m sure you will vote for Obama again. The occupy BS and this Bill isn’t half of what will happen in his 2nd term. Just watch. And thanks to people like you, our fate is locked. Good work….bravo
@muse and at @true: It is totally TRUE that [muse] is right on, and I second this, too. Tried to elaborate on this by including a couple of points from both sides of the Atlantic and putting things into “North-Atlantic” perspective — because actually the problems are the same: bureaucrats and the executive alone taking over ALL BRANCHES of government (this is not the idea of Checks and Balances, neither in the U. S. nor in Germany which inherited its post-war constitution from the “old” U. S. of Liberty). Another reason for me to point to Switzerland and Norway (non-EU countries stemming the tide of European totalitarianism in their very own ways within that little-known counter organization called EFTA
Whether or not Senate passes this bill has NOTHING to do with Obama. He either signs or vetos a bill AFTER it goes through Senate and House. While they can override his decision by a separate vote, Obama’s opinion on this bill is not taken into consideration during this due process.
Furthermore, he has promised to veto it. It’s you Republican assholes that will jump on him for doing so.
So actually YES, Obama IS the president that the average American needs AND WANTS.
What does history class have to do with checks and balances? It’s simple political science. It’s not history because it is a current system.
BTW…this bill was snuck in the back door just like Obama did with his health care plan. I for one don’t agree with this and this is the biggest mistake the right has made all term.
I just want a few things: For it to be mandatory to have all American traditions back and English be the only language. By traditions I mean, “So help me god” “One nation under god”…stand for the anthem….the pledge is sung in schools….etc. This is America, founded on beliefs that once made us great. Since we have strayed from them, we have become lost. Bring them back. If you don’t want to pay your respect and pledge your allegiance, then get out because you are ungrateful. If I said to my grandmother after she gave me a present for Christmas, “This is great! But I don’t have to say thank you, it’s my right.” She would spank my ass all the way out the door. Of course I wouldn’t say that though, I know better and could never be that disrespectful to anyone.
Also, unemployment needs to be lowered to 6 months and eventually to 3. Welfare recipients MUST take drug tests; the more frequent the better. And no amnesty for illegals UNTIL we get ourselves in check. We simply can’t afford to spend billions bringing them in when we are in this shape. They are also keeping millions out of jobs. We can bring them in when we aren’t bankrupt. Until then, sweep them out to give AMERICANS jobs. Those millions of jobs going to AMERICANS will begin to give billions in income tax that we aren’t getting from illegals.
And I keep hearing, “They take all of the jobs Americans don’t want to do.” Not true because once those jobs open up, job placement agencies will start filling them in with people on the unemployment lists. And if those people don’t want to do them, then tough shit. No more unemployment for you. You see how all of this adds up to billions and billions and soon to trillions.
Enough with the catering. Time to start earning your stay folks.
So i just read Title 10(X) Subtitle D “Detainee Matters” and it seems to be rather inconsistant… i’m not very well read in law but it sounds to me like while it says one thing in a section and then later in that section it contradicts itself. Well i would like to hear different interpretations of this part of the law.
what happened to democracy? the PEOPLE having a say? that is what democracy is. WHERE IS AMERICA???? Are we destined for civil war again???? ludicrous
there is nothing in this bill that takes away the rights of the american citizen,read the bill,and if you had any kind of education this bill is very understandable,there is nothing at the end of it that says it takes away the rights of the u.s citizen,read pages from 359 through 390
maybe if you Americans didn’t fuck with every other country you wouldn’t have “terrorists”. one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter. I don’t agree with the actions of many so called “terrorists”. With the exception of 9-11 which was a horrific event none the less, American soil has never been attacked, Yet you can find American footprints in every country in the developing world. Think about it and ask yourself who the real terrorists are. I mean if what this page says is true, than your own government is now treating its loyal citizens like terrorists. The American military has always been a dictatorship, they arrange military coups, stage revolutions and are responsible for the deaths of millions of people around the world, simply for living life in a different manner, or because they are worried that the developing world would become to powerful with all of its resources. Mayb its time American citizens get a taste of what american does all around the world. WAKE UP CALL
I think you are just upset that your country sucks. It doesn’t matter which one, it sucks. The only country I have ever been to that I would love to live in is Japan. Yes, I have been to Mexico, Canada, Europe to include: France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and Holland, as well as Korea, Thailand, and finally Japan. Thailand is a hell of a place but I wouldn’t live there. I hate Europe. All you pussies do is bitch about America. Your lives are so worthless that you focus on ours every waking moment. I never envy you. And if you are from Canada, I’m not even going to start. Hey “lay low” NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOU!!!! Your shitty comments don’t bother anyone. It just further confirms my claim that foreigners are so meaningless that they focus on America 24/7. If it sucks so bad here, why is it the the #1 country to immigrate to? Why are YOUR countrymen coming here? Face it; you suck and are jealous. Yea America’s boots have been all over the world. We bailed out Europe’s weak nations and saved them from Nazism. Don’t forget that because we don’t. Half of your country probably wouldn’t exist today if it wasn’t for us. Hitler would have began to set up German families to occupy all of your countries and limited the procreation of the local nationals. Be thankful you butt plug. Now go back to your worthless life….
When shit hits the fan, guys. <3
In subtitle D sec 1032 it does clearly state that in the requirements for military custody are for those individuals that have been found to be planning, abetting, or actively involved with known terrorist activities or organizations can be detained until “the end of the conflict” with the associated aforementioned groups. This clearly does not give a definite period of time for detaining these people. It also states that citizens and legal aliens are not covered under these rules or stipulations but are covered under already established laws and acts already set forth. So what then is set forth already to deal with us?? and if you are a citizen who is a sympathizer, then on which side of the law do you fall? You don’t automatically lose your citizenship, and who knows how long it would really take to be properly detained if you are involved with a ” conspiracy”? Most of this bill is a proposed budget for the military spending for the next fiscal year. Why then do you need clarification on proper procedures for detaining suspected terrorist activities? It looks like to me just another set up for the infamous red tape that the government can use to achieve what ever ends it feel justified in meting out to whomever they want whenever they want. If you want a budget, then do a budget. If you want to deal with terrorism, then do that. Don’t try and mix the two together as you will only end up giving the terrorists a way out in the long run to eventually come back at us again with even more of an agenda. 8)
The war on Terror and other things seems to be unbalanced.
Your knowledge is unbalanced. Read my reply to your comment about whether we are in the middle east for oil or not. You silly liberal hypocrite. Are you able to ever do anything besides complain? Or could you use some of that energy to propose a better solution? That is all I ever hear from anyone is complain complain criticize criticize. Am I saying your criticism is unjust? No. But I am tired of the whining. Lets hear proposals. But again, you and the others that bitch about us being there for oil. If you really feel it’s wrong then here is how you can protest it. Stop driving, stop using the water that comes out of your sink that was made clean by the plant running on oil, stop using any product made with plastics because they are made with oil, stop using electricity because the machines making it run on oil, stop buying the food at your local grocery store that was shipped on a truck using oil and also packaged in a factory with machines using oil, again with plastics; throw away your cell phone and tv and stereo and iPod and iPad, don’t sit on any of your fabric furniture because that was made by machines on oil (even the stitching done by electric sewing machines that got their electricity from oil, unless if your wooden furniture was carved by hand then throw it away, make sure even that carved furniture was made with wood that was cut down with a saw that was made by hand and not a chainsaw….that saw must have been forged by hand and sharpened by hand. Your entire life will be over without oil
You don’t like the US being in the middle east for oil….whether we are or aren’t doesn’t matter. What does matter is how big of a hypocrite you are. Refuse to use any product made with or by a machine that uses oil if you are so moral. Otherwise shut up with that BS argument that we are only in the middle east for oil. Forgetting that their radical beliefs cut off journalists heads and flew airplanes into buildings. Watch the movie “The Kingdom” with Jamie Fox. That type of shit was real ever before 9/11. I have a friend who was a dentist for one of the American oil companies. The oil workers worked and lived in small towns that were fenced and guarded 24/7. He worked as the towns dentist and loved it every day. He said he would wake up, ride his bike down the road to his clinic and only have to work until 3. Once his twin daughters were born, Islamic radicals started sending decapitated heads to the gate with threatening video tapes. It got to the point where he lined the floors of his attic with bullet proof vests and stashed water and food. Then he decided it wasn’t worth it anymore and left. But I guess killing in the name of god isn’t just something stupid people did in history. Even today, the “all loving Allah” will reward murder and suicide. Good stuff….. Oh yea, Fuck the US and it’s war on oil. says, DW (Dark Wing Duck)
If you think that the US is in the Middle East for the oil you are very much mistaken, and you need to get your head out of your ass. Most American need to actually. Shut your TV and try to find some information. This is why you have the internet….
I’ll give you candy if you find any info.
I hope you weren’t referring to me about thinking we are there for oil.
I said that is not true. But even if it was….I told them to try living life without it while they complain about us being there for oil. They wouldn’t live.
But I KNOW we aren’t there for it. Many people forget when a group of people flew airplanes into buildings and killed thousands of people. Remember the news showing neighborhoods across the country with American flags raised in every yard? America had never been closer.
Then when Bush made his speech, “On my orders, American forces have begun strikes on the Taliban Regime…..” The US was cheering for days, except for a small group of hippie liberals strung out on weed and LSD who complain about everything the government does. Then a year later, like every American is good for, people got tired of it. America has no dedication anymore. Not for anything. If someone doesn’t like their job, they’ll just quit and go collect unemployment. So now people are just tired of the war. What did they think? It would take a couple weeks?
Our country is doomed
I would love to go on for hours on the subject but what good would that do me. All i have to say is, this is America. There is no change. If anything the government is just opening up what they havnt been letting the public openly know. If anything this is probably a sign of a brighter future. I would love to go on on my lifes experiences. But those are gone and in my past. Just because there buckling down and taking control. Dosnt mean any of our rights have been taken away. nough said.
i think this is all BS, i’m a neutral side, i believe there is no true news station that does not part on a poltical Party. but this is a fake
Have you checked on snoopes.com to verify it was a fake?
Yeahhh, I’m going to have to go with the people with actual sense. I, myself, have read the bill, have researched the hell out of this bill, and had it explained by a politician who, by the way, isn’t an evil man whatsoever, but actually went to school for.. you know, political science, amazingly! and there is NOTHING that says the rights of the US citizen will in any way be taken away. Before you write some conspiracy bullshit, go back to school, take an English class, and then come back.
also, at ErinAnn: The library of Congress says otherwise:
“Latest Major Action: 12/1/2011 Passed/agreed to in Senate. Status: Passed Senate with amendments by Yea-Nay. 93 – 7. Record Vote Number: 218. “
Dovakin, what does going back to school to take an English class have to do with understanding Political Science? Also, could you please list your sources. You said a politician explained the bill to you…as far as I’m concerned, he’s made-up. If you want people be find you credible, you should list sources so readers know they are reliable and unbiased (I learned this in College English by the way). Another useful tool would be to avoid attacking opposing views and just list facts, its a logical fallacy, Ad hominem to be exact. (Argument and Reasoning 101).
Thanks.
“(Sec. 1032) Requires U.S. Armed Forces to hold in custody pending disposition a person who was a member or part of al Qaeda or an associated force and participated in planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners. Authorizes the Secretary to waive such requirement in the national security interest. Makes such requirement inapplicable to U.S. citizens or U.S. lawful resident aliens. Outlines implementation procedures.”
Right in the goddamn bill.
Hey 14-year-old, Americans ARE currently in revolt. It’s called the OCCUPY movement. You are only 14, so it makes sense that you would be naive enough to think that there are no secret arrests, but, seriously, you’re old enough to see that Americans have been out in the streets for months now for a reason. I can only assume you’re being fed propaganda by mom & pop or school if you haven’t used your own intellect and noticed this.
You wrote that toward the end of the bill it essentially says it can apply to Americans ”if we want it to.”
What section of Bill S.1867 has that language? People can’t/won’t believe this unless we can read it for ourselves. I’ve read through the bill and can’t find the language you’re talking about. However, I will concede that it could have been missed while I was wading through all the finance stuff.
Its not law yet. Besides it will be found unconstitutional like everything else they been trying to pass here lately. OCCUPY EVERYTHING!
WILL USA SURVIVE?The folks who are getting the free stuff, don’t like the folks who are paying for the free stuff, because the folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff.
The folks who are paying for the free stuff want the free stuff to stop, and the folks who are getting the free stuff want even more free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting!
Now… The people who are forcing the people to pay for the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING the free stuff, that the people who are PAYING for the free stuff, are being mean, prejudiced, and racist.
So… The people who are GETTING the free stuff have been convinced they need to hate the people who are paying for the free stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay for their free stuff, and giving them the free stuff in the first place.
We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long that there are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the free stuff.
Now understand this. All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250 years after being founded. The reason? The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.
The United States officially became a Republic in 1776, 235 years ago. The number of people now getting free stuff outnumbers the people paying for the free stuff. We have one chance to change that In 2012. Failure to change that spells the end of the United States as we know it.
ELECTION 2012 IS COMING
A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!
I’M 100% for PASSING THIS ON!!!
Let’s take a stand!!!
Obama: Gone!
Borders: Closed!
Language: English only
Culture: Constitution, and the Bill of Rights!
Drug Free: Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!
NO freebies to: Non-Citizens!
We the people are coming
Only 86% will send this on. Should be 100%. What will you do?
————————————
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money”. — Margaret Thatcher
that’s exactly my point dumb ass, drop the patriotism and wake up. People all around the world suffer because of American policies. I don’t only blame America, I blame all of the countries that plunder other peoples resources and kill for gold. The reason America is the wealthiest country in the world is because of the vast amounts of resources they legally steal from other countries. Most of these terrorist groups and dictators that the US is chasing after were put in power by the US. The CIA trained paramilitaries throughout South and Central America to protect their interests and topple self sustaining socialist governments. Why does the U.S need to intervene in foreign civil conflicts? Protecting Interests, Not the safety of the people. Did you know that during World War 2, Nazis were buying the fuel they used for their fighter planes directly from Americans? Ive said enough im not hear to heckle anybody about their nationality. But your government is not working in your interests or the interests of people around the world. check these out
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/01/us-apology-guatemala-syphilis-tests
http://humanrightsinvestigations.org/2011/07/27/great-man-made-river-nato-bombs/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKZZoMoi3Xo
Ok you really need to stop posting here and get back to your own problems. You have just proven how ignorant you are and how you will make up anything to try and bash the US. We don’t care about you!
But just to explain why you are dumb:
How does America steal vast amount of resources that other countries are more than happy to sell to us. Set the oil aside for a second. Yes, the oil we are still paying for by the barrel.
America’s biggest weakness is how we import EVERYTHING. Countries across the world are stimulated dramatically by Americas purchase of their resources. Name a country we just up and walked in and took all of their resources. I’m not even going to argue about oil because that is a totally different argument and we didn’t just walk in and take it. We are still paying a shit load for it.
America has been involved in many conflicts. Some just and others unjust. Unlike pussy Europe who couldn’t save itself from an army of 5 year old ballerinas. America refused to enter into WWII and it wasn’t until all countries of Europe crumbled to ONE dictator, that we HAD to step in. Otherwise, we were his next stop and by that point he would have been coming full steam. So you can thank us for that.
The last 2 desert wars we fought in were justified. Kuwait is a funded ally of the US. Sadam invaded their country and began burning THEIR only means of exportation. Without THEIR oil, THEY would be nothing and WE would be nothing. It was a lose-lose. Our hand was forced. Sadam was told not to do it and he did anyway so we came and kicked his arse. We saved ourselves from some serious trouble and Kuwait from being controlled by a madman who would have caused them to go broke after he took their livelihood.
And how about where we are now. Back in the 80’s Sadam used chemical weapons on his OWN people. Then when we wanted to send inspectors to prove he didn’t have any more, he refused. What were we supposed to think? And one regular morning turned into horror as men supported by Sadam hijacked airplanes and flew them into the sides of some big buildings. Thousands died. You know, the same Osama Bin Laden that years earlier tried to blow up the same buildings with a car bomb. What were we going to do, let him try again? Bush (even though he sucked as a president) played it cool and gave Sadam plenty of time to hand over Bin Laden. He refused to cooperate. We took out the dictator and FINALY, it took too long, took out the mad man Bin Laden. However, no one foresaw the Taliban becoming a guerrilla force that would fight like cowards and jeopardize the whole rebuilding process. They won’t even fight, they just place bombs and run away. Many pretend to be civilians and those who actually are civilians are threatened by them every day. Do you know what would happen if we just walked out of there right now? It would be worse than ever before. The Taliban would punish everyone who they knew had helped or even smiled at NATO forces.
Now we have Pakistan who basically harbored Bin Laden for who knows how long. They just announced they will fire at any NATO forces conducting operations over their borders. You know, the same borders that NATO forces watch Taliban cross back and forth over on a regular basis.
So, “lay low” please refute every one of those reasons we went to war and tell me how you would have solved our problem. Because you are a world leader of a world power, you know what we should have done. So please tell me how a coward Euro would have done things. Given them some cheese and wine?
This NEWSVOICE periodical is ran by misinformed idiots. People should not read these articles and take the information as gospel. The intent of the bill is not geared to hurt, injure, or kill Americans. Its an anti-terrorism bill. Come on America. Lets get the information from the source. Please. I’m a military man. We will “NEVER” assasinate American citizens.
People seem to disagree with that. I have followed the work of Naomi Wolf for some time. Whats your opinion on her? http://naomiwolf.org/
I would imagine there are some police officers who would “NEVER” spray college students with mace, or “NEVER” beat non violent protestors on the street, and “NEVER” quiet the american people, whom they are sworn to protect, thus destroying their right to free expression and assembly.
Whether this is crap or not, you can’t argue that some people are far more comfortable taking orders, no matter how tasteless and inhuman those orders will make them, than standing up for what’s right. It would be so, so easy for this country to become a police state (more so than it already is) because we are all so ignorant and complacent in our ways. We scare easily, and we don’t like to stand alone.
Oh please……I would have loved to have been at that demonstration and took a big poop on one of their heads. I know you listened to all of the hyped media coverage of that cop spraying the students but do you actually know the entire story? The day prior, an email was sent out to all students that explained they will NOT gather on school grounds and if they did, they would be forcibly removed by campus PD. And so, obviously, the next day they formed a group and the campus police responded. Once the PD showed up, the students encircled them while chanting. The police as you could see were bunched back to back and told the students to back away from them. They refused and those people sat down. With an angry group of people surrounding them, what were they to do? They honestly should have just started making arrests which wouldn’t have looked as bad as the mace. But either way it’s obvious that they were surrounded as at the end of the video, after the students were sprayed, the crowd starts chanting, “We will let you leave! We will let you leave!” Do you find that a safe situation? The cops showed up and hundreds of people surrounded them and would not allow them to remove themselves from a potentially dangerous situation. Those whiny kids brought it on themselves and like all criminals I watch on TV just after I watched the camera film them throwing weed out of the window, “This is a set up! That wasn’t mine!” It’s never anyone’s fault, is it…..
Actually, the point of this bill is to reauthorize the funding of the military, not “anti-terrorism”. They should remove the language from this bill as it has nothing to do with the matter at hand (FUNDING), and roll it in to an anti-terrorism bill to see if it passes (it won’t). Putting it in this particular bill is underhanded because it HAS to pass in some form or another and you can call the people voting against it “unamerican” or “freedom haters”.
The bill did *not* pass. See: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/amendment.xpd?session=112&amdt=s1274
Correction: one clarifying amendment did not pass.
The bill itself passed, as reported.
Hasn’t it really always been this way? Atleast it has seemed that way in my life, I’m about 25. The government can break it’s own laws then write new ones, or in this case pretend like they haven’t been breaking there own laws and write a new one. Enjoy the life that you have while you have it! I’m surprised us humans haven’t killed ourselves off already anyways to be honest.
(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
That’s all you need to know.
My favorite part of the”enraged” WIRED article is this paragraph “It would be one thing if the military was clamoring for the authority to become the nation’s jailer. But to the contrary: Defense Secretary Leon Panetta opposes the maneuver. So does CIA Director David Petraeus, who usually commands deference from senators in both parties. Pretty much every security official has lined up against the Senate detention provisions, from Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to FBI Director Robert Mueller, who worry that they’ll get in the way of FBI investigations of domestic terrorists. President Obama has promised to veto the bill.”
Yeah if the military had been clamoring for it then it’s cool. Fucking dicks
Trust me, the military is never in on any decisions like this. The commanders of each branch are obviously somewhat aware but even they are told what to and what not to do by the SedDef and those above. As far as the ENTIRE military itself, they never know shit until they’re told what to do. As far as I’m concerned, anything like this would cause MANY military members to go AWOL. Do you really think these people would start to take over America through force when their families are at home without their safety? Many members would feel this is an unlawful order and therefore would not abide by it. They would be most concerned for their families safety and that’s where they would be. Trust me, none of this type of shit is ever told to the military. They are just pawns on a chess board. Told what to do by all of the civilians VOTED into office.
beatlejuice, beatlejuice,beatlejuice. LOL
Candyman, Candyman, Candyman. muwahaha
I checked the pdf file (both of them) . Did not find the word “battelground” or “if we want to” or “legitimate assassination”. I will assume the author was quoting senators, rather than the bill. If someone can find where exactly in the bill the languauge is located that the author of this article is talking about, please post.
that’s uncalled for. But your the one who will be fucked when the shit hits the fan..If you are even rich douche. LOL
I also can’t find anything to the contrary in any of the sections called to question. If you can, please share. I must say, this sounds like some misconstrued conspiracy bulls**t and it’s infuriating. To me, it’s rather bold to say the senate passed a bill that “effectively ends the bill of rights”, but whatever.
I mean “Try it”. As in Try it bitch.”.
Despite what this new bill states, or doesn’t state; or how we choose to interpret it, one thing is true and has been true for the longest time regarding us (US citizens) and our beloved Government: We actually ARE loosing our constitutional rights as Americans.
It does not matter to me if you choose to believe this, or if you choose not to believe this. I really do not care what your thoughts or opinions are. Truth is truth no matter how much you try to lie about it, cover it up, or sugar coat things. This country is heading straight for a major disaster by those people who we have put into power to do right by us. Greed, power and money are what truly runs all those facets that go on behind that proverbial “curtain”, and it’s happening will all the world Governments. Not just our own. Some Governments just choose to display their desire for power and control openly (N. Korea, Iran, China, Etc..).
I feel sad for this country and what it once stood for. I feel disappointment towards my fellow man (not all, but most) because all of this has been caused by us. Instead of working together as a singular species towards a unified common goal, we have instead become a virus unto our own people and planet. We are destroying everything that stands in our path – even if that “something” happens to be ourselves…
Probably the worst part however – the very thing that makes me laugh and nauseous, both at the same time – is how an entire species, “Humanity” (all of us “humans”)… How we seem to have lost just that… Our HUMANITY.
You are absolutely right. The problem with big governments is us citizens lose out freedoms. But here’s the problem. The reason why the government is controlling everything is because of all of the different little minority groups that want EVERYTHING. Obama was voted into office for 2 reasons. 1. because he was black so 99% of black Americans voted for him….great start 2. because he promised many hand outs and also said, “I will have all troops out of the middle east within 12 months of my inauguration.” What happened a year later? He sent a surge into Afghanistan. Bush sent a “surge” to Iraq and Obama followed right in his footsteps. I honestly feel like the only reason Obama has any followers left is because of his race. “He can’t be bad, hes black. Only white people are racist, selfish and corrupt.”
So now we have people wanting to build Mosques near the 9/11 site…sure. Lengthen the unemployment benefits….sure. Allow millions of illegals who are already receiving under the table wages, thus stealing BILLIONS in income taxes from the US, to have amnesty….sure. Start a socialized health care program….sure. Now the government can tell me where and who I need to see as a doctor. This only benefits the people who aren’t working and receiving, or paying for, their health insurance. I pay for my dental insurance out of pocket. Health insurance isn’t much more. So all of these people want and want and take and take and the government is more than happy to feed them to get votes. It is also increasing their control. It is going to blow up in everyone’s face. Including the hardworking tax payers who have disagreed with every one of these situations. I never voted for Obama in the first run and won’t do so for the second. I KNEW he was going to fuck us up so bad. It honestly scared me how many people were drawn into his BS. Our country is in BAD BAD shape. And those of us who make a living without a free check are hurting the most. Because we have run dry, now the non workers have run dry….and of course NOW it’s a problem. The government is happy though because they have more control than they did 3 years ago.
Thank you to everyone who wanted money for yourselves and didn’t care whose pockets it came from. All while empowering the government to put them in a situation like this that will only triple within a couple of years. There is a reason some work hard and earn money and others protest while earning minimum wage or government checks. We will collapse soon and have to rebuild. Rebuild back into America decades ago where all of those “racist white men” who didn’t give handouts to ANYONE had the country prospering.
I want to know EXACTLY which part of the bill the author is referring to. I have been reading through the bill and I haven’t found anything in there yet that says anything remotely close to what the article is claiming. I have found parts of the bill that state things to the contrary >>
“(e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States”
If anyone finds text to the contrary, please share.
The trick is the way things are worded. It makes you think it doesn’t apply to citizens, but read closer:
Sec. 1031 (a): “Congress affirms that the [existing] authority of the President to use all necessary and appropriate force … includes the authority for the Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered persons”
So, (e) saying that, “Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities,” doesn’t really mean anything, since the section is just affirming an existing authority.
Now read this: http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/12/does-the-ndaa-authorize-detention-of-us-citizens
I love how everyone thinks this site is real. I’m so glad I’m not a moron like all of you and can laugh at this. Tons of bogus sites driving all the retards crazy. I love it.
suck my rich dick bitch nigga
Lol stupid ‘yo’. Your kind is #1 on my hit list when the country goes to shit and there is no media and jury to back you up. pop pop pop…..
Wow, the only thing less classy than your comment is your tag – Richie Rich ? What kind of broken egotism make you feel the need to project your self with such twisted title. You must have be compensating for your 1 inch boner.
Come on now, everyone calm down
Look up the word TENET and the word TENANT. I don’t know who or what is a tenant of the Bill of Rights.
LISTEN!
THIS TERRIFIED ME.
I’m generally left leaning.
I read the bill.
The sections in question are 1031 and 1032. It took me 45 minutes to rap my head around the density of it but in conclusion it seems that they go out of their way to state that this does not apply to US citizens.
Does anyone else want to read this too and cite the specific line or lines that are contrary?
You can find the bill on the Senates website or here is the link.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867es/pdf/BILLS-112s1867es.pdf
1031-32 relate to detentions of persons “covered” by allegations of helping al-Qaeda.
Except for the non-judicial means of deciding who is “covered”, everything sounds
like it only formalizes most existing handling of “terrorist detainees”.
1607 is the part that threatens Posse Comitatus, by setting up authorities under which
the military might operate within the States.
In 2011 I noticed a trend of used military equipment being granted to municipal county and state
law enforcement agencies. Armored carriers for SWAT teams etc… I’d like to find where that
program is going in the next year.
The United States Government has declared war on “The People”. Now the question is are you willing to fight for freedom and liberty? Are you willing to give up your life so that the ones after us can live long and prosper? Do you understand that your life is not as improtant as the well being of this country? IDK about you but I do. I am ready for the fight. Bring it on NWO.
America is ignorant. We could give tours of the FEMA camps and people would still believe that the government is using them for good.
If anyone on the side of the author could please post specific parts of this bill that will in any way infringe upon the rights of American citizens that would be very constructive to forming a legitimate debate. Until then, NUU UHHH POOPY HEADS!
The limitations under section 1032 only specify that it is not REQUIRED for a “hostile” US Citizen to be detained by the military. In no way is the military actually being limited, and simply, according to the ideology behind section 1041, the military can detain ANYONE who is considered “hostile” or who poses a threat to any property under the control of the Secretary of Defense. So basically, the entire effect of the middle pages of this bill is to open up countless loopholes and provide provisions for the military to essentially do whatever the heck they want — as long as it doesn’t contradict their rules of engagement. LOL. That’s military dictatorship at its finest.
I disagree with the “mostly likely” hypothesis speculated by “Somebody who can read for himself”, who says that “Custody would most likely be given to a civilian police force like the FBI, and they would be tried in a similar manner.” ‘Custody’ is problematic even in section 1041.
Basically, what I want to happen is for this bill to only have content directly relevant to its title. OMIT “AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES” FROM THE TITLE AND STOP OPENING UP SO MANY LOOPHOLES BY MISINTERPRETATION AND CONFUSIONS THROUGH CROSS-REFERENCES TO OTHER LAWS. IF YOU HAVE REVISIONS FOR OTHER LAWS, MAKE A SEPARATE BILL AND GROUP THEM ALL TOGETHER INTO THAT BILL.
Simply, this is how writing bills should work: ORGANIZE THE BILLS STRICTLY BY A SINGLE SUBJECT (ie. all amendments to a specific law should be grouped into one bill) SO THERE IS TRANSPARENCY!!! More bills, more transparency. Logically separate each bill by topic so appropriate wording can be used and any loopholes can be covered through clear and thorough language so that all purposes for a specific bill can be clearly, legibly transparent.
Right now, all I see is a mishandling of existing laws through superfluous restatements of what those laws should already be covering, which only serves to open up loopholes in the execution of such existing laws. Basically, all it does is open up loopholes for misrepresentation of existing laws. I don’t want loopholes in the US Constitution, so let’s not make this a habit. OK, Senate? Don’t shove the entire 925 pages of this anarchy down our throats. It’s like a public speaker being assaulted with 925 questions at once and expected to answer them all within 1 hour. Go **** off.
No way! How could they do this to America?! I thought this was suppose to be the land of Freedom without war! I think the government’s trying to turn this into a Land of No Freedom at all!
Ok, doing this to American citizens is completely different from doing it to foreigners, and I’m sorry if I sound xenophobic saying it. But quite frankly, America is better than every other country in the world (Although, if shit like this, and the Health Care bill, and our slow slide in to socialism/authoritative communism continues, we won’t be for long).
The following is for all the commenters making snide comments about America:
I’m really sorry if your little bitch country is super patriotic, but the long and short of it is we have the capability to turn your little bitch country in to glass.
And I’m really sorry that the international community thinks that they’re the shit, but America holds together the UN, and NATO, and several of the other defense treaties. Your economies completely depend on ours. If we withdrew from the world, militarily and politically, and especially economically, IT WOULD BE REALLY, REALLY BAD FOR YOU, DUMBASS!
In summation, you tell us not to be “World Police,” yet you are the first people you run crying and bitching to when you need a cop. So, sit there all snug and cozy in your little blanket of Blame-the-US-first warmth. I don’t give a shit. But I want you to think about what happens when America finally gets sick of your crap and we actually withdraw from everywhere.
Ugh shut up
Are you saying shut up because your president (who you voted for stricly because of his race) and his goons, who give you all of your welfare, are being criticised?
Go pump out more babies to get more money. And then when something doesn’t go your way, just pull the race card. It doesn’t matter if you take money from someone else’s pocket, it’s all about you.
Those “racist white men” who ran America decades ago without this type of public had our country prospering. Now it’s all about the minorities and look where we are. We were the richest country in the world and now we are poor.
Does this not compute with any of you? There is no arguing it. You can’t even say I am ignorant for saying it. IT’S THE TRUTH. Thank you all for ruining this country, my home.
So i just read Title 10(X) Subtitle D “Detainee Matters” and it seems to be rather inconsistant… i’m not very well read in law but it sounds to me like while it says one thing in a section and then later in that section it contradicts itself. Well i would like to hear different interpretations of this part of the law.
there is nothing in this bill that takes away the rights of the american citizen,read the bill,and if you had any kind of education this bill is very understandable,there is nothing at the end of it that says it takes away the rights of the u.s citizen,read pages from 359 through 390
You cant touch a real American. We will beat OBOCRAP all to hell and all his ILK. FUGGETTABOUTIT. LOL
FYI: don’t spread knowledge if you can’t deliver your message with speaking/typing properly. Etc. is etc, not ect.
Secondly, if you don’t have a plan for the possibility of this country imploding, you shouldn’t be on here speaking your mind or trying to inform people. We’re on the brink of our own destruction. Don’t complain or preach about the problem. Find yourself a solution and spread that within your networks and encourage other citizens to educate themselves.
I’ll be in Canada living in the woods before I’ll fight the U.S. militaries.
I have always slowly prepared for a situation like this. I was once down in Oklahoma (place sucks) for a short while. There was an ice storm that knocked out all power for 85 square miles that lasted 9 days. I’m talking no running water, no electricity at all, nowhere to get food because ATM’s were down and so were the grocery stores credit card machines. Many opened up for cash only transactions but change became limited and if you only had a $20 to pay for a case of water, you better get as much as you can because you weren’t getting change. Gas stations were out of service. I had to sleep in 2 pairs of sweats with 2 layers of thermals under 3 blankets. Changing in the morning was a bitch with no light and it was almost futile as I couldn’t even shower to get the stink off. After that I promised myself I would never be so vulnerable. I have grabbed Lanterns (gas and electric), medical supplies, freeze dried food, a Kelly Kettle (check them out!) which allows me to boil water and make it potable, and of course a way to defend my family. Hurricane Katrina showed us that even a natural disaster can bring about a deadly situation between neighbors. I wouldn’t allow my family and I to be looted, killed, or worse. But I do have one email I received to share with you below….The SHTF needs to happen in order for America to rebuild into the great nation it once was. We have ruined ourselves from the inside out and we must purge of the parasites that suck the life out of our country. Those of us that have been here for generations, paying our taxes and stimulating the economy have run dry. We can no longer pay all of these unemployment/welfare bills for others to get free money. Sure they don’t get a lot. But the fact that America has taught people that they don’t even have to work to make money is a sad thing. It has been exploited and now needs to be resolved. No more open doors, close the borders. No more free money, shut it down. I would love to provide for all of Mexico but reality knows we can’t. There are Millions of them here and they are all working under the table jobs. That means our country is losing out of BILLIONS in income taxes. They also put more AMERICANS into unemployment. And if those Americans don’t like the jobs, too bad. Either work and get paid or don’t and sit at home broke. If a job is available, no unemployment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WILL USA SURVIVE?The folks who are getting the free stuff, don’t like the folks who are paying for the free stuff, because the folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff.
The folks who are paying for the free stuff want the free stuff to stop, and the folks who are getting the free stuff want even more free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting!
Now… The people who are forcing the people to pay for the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING the free stuff, that the people who are PAYING for the free stuff, are being mean, prejudiced, and racist.
So… The people who are GETTING the free stuff have been convinced they need to hate the people who are paying for the free stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay for their free stuff, and giving them the free stuff in the first place.
We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long that there are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the free stuff.
Now understand this. All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250 years after being founded. The reason? The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.
The United States officially became a Republic in 1776, 235 years ago. The number of people now getting free stuff outnumbers the people paying for the free stuff. We have one chance to change that In 2012. Failure to change that spells the end of the United States as we know it.
ELECTION 2012 IS COMING
A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!
I’M 100% for PASSING THIS ON!!!
Let’s take a stand!!!
Obama: Gone!
Borders: Closed!
Language: English only
Culture: Constitution, and the Bill of Rights!
Drug Free: Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!
NO freebies to: Non-Citizens!
We the people are coming
Only 86% will send this on. Should be 100%. What will you do?
————————————
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money”. — Margaret Thatcher
I love that so many of the people crying about this on here, can’t spell. I hope the military targets you first. Nwo is on its way. Sucks to be you guys.
Wow, your comment as a fellow free-mason you put shame upon us. If the NWO strikes and falls like they have all in the past. Maybe just for fun I come after you first – as a symbolic message Et tu, Brute. You sir should be very careful to whom you taunt. You must be an apprentice
Try it . GOD have mercy on those that do.
do yuo mean “Try it” as in… watch them try to control everyone? I ask because every single time I goto the states it feels so military controlled… police watching everything… It’s just such an odddd feeling.
I can only imagine with this bill in place… yikes
gosh, you guys are a bunch of douches. america this. america that. america will not collapse & if we ever did. we’ll go right back to where we started & the economy will pick up again. corporate banks have always been ruling a piece of this country & i bet you anything all of you have bank accounts!!! ridiculous. just shut up. seriously. the negativity you guys bring is only making it worse so how about you guys change your stupid little attitudes around & actually do something to help our economy instead of loathing & complaining on your macbooks & pc’s that gosh forbid capitalism has done nothing for you! geesh man. gosh no wonder half of the world hates us. theres no other country i rather be & i love my country & i have FAITH in my fucking country like the founding fathers did.
I just wanna say that if this becomes true and the government does do all that stuff people will revolt. It’s plain and simple. They will only take so much untill they stand up and fight for their freedoms just like us Americans have had to in the past. Plus I bet this law is being influenced by all the old senators who feel that our younger generation may be doing harm to its country. If that’s true we only need to wait till they all die off. I’m 28 years old right now. I know it’s the generation of my grandparents and parents whos vote mostly count, but give us like 20-40 years or so and the whole government and society will totally change into what my generation has in store. And then another generation after us would have the ability to makes changes. I call it clashing of the generations. It’s happened in the early 1990s with the freedoms of slaves. I have been able to see it with people getting less conservative over time and as we progress as a species, we will see it again. So regardless if this law passes, we the people will always have the power to over throw anything. Especially our own government. I personally don’t think it will ever get to that point tho. We have fought so hard forgo be where we are that.
maybe if you Americans didn’t fuck with every other country you wouldn’t have “terrorists”. one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter. I don’t agree with the actions of many so called “terrorists”. With the exception of 9-11 which was a horrific event none the less, American soil has never been attacked, Yet you can find American footprints in every country in the developing world. Think about it and ask yourself who the real terrorists are. I mean if what this page says is true, than your own government is now treating its loyal citizens like terrorists. The American military has always been a dictatorship, they arrange military coups, stage revolutions and are responsible for the deaths of millions of people around the world, simply for living life in a different manner, or because they are worried that the developing world would become to powerful with all of its resources. Mayb its time American citizens get a taste of what american does all around the world. WAKE UP CALL
I think you are just upset that your country sucks. It doesn’t matter which one, it sucks. The only country I have ever been to that I would love to live in is Japan. Yes, I have been to Mexico, Canada, Europe to include: France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and Holland, as well as Korea, Thailand, and finally Japan. Thailand is a hell of a place but I wouldn’t live there. I hate Europe. All you pussies do is bitch about America. Your lives are so worthless that you focus on ours every waking moment. I never envy you. And if you are from Canada, I’m not even going to start. Hey “lay low” NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOU!!!! Your shitty comments don’t bother anyone. It just further confirms my claim that foreigners are so meaningless that they focus on America 24/7. If it sucks so bad here, why is it the the #1 country to immigrate to? Why are YOUR countrymen coming here? Face it; you suck and are jealous. Yea America’s boots have been all over the world. We bailed out Europe’s weak nations and saved them from Nazism. Don’t forget that because we don’t. Half of your country probably wouldn’t exist today if it wasn’t for us. Hitler would have began to set up German families to occupy all of your countries and limited the procreation of the local nationals. Be thankful you butt plug. Now go back to your worthless life….
i don’t mean to add to the confusion of these comments, but something should be said. There are government revolts, many are not for the better, but many are geared and ready to kill. If they were organized they could in theory, defeat a larger organization, say, the US government. Now to say this bill solely does one thing or another is false. as to say that with most bills. Now from the few pages i read, what i understand is that it does essentially build navel and army supplies up (in laymens words, sense i know no other) but it can along with that, as a sort of tag along, do what the article says. now i build this theory on an act that was passed during WW2 which helped supply troops overseas with this that and other essential things that US soldiers need over seas that will always be needed over seas. but along with that was a tag along that built a “sheep breeding” organization to supply america at large with a constant supply of good wool. Sense that is no longer a need, and sense its a very costly program it would make sense to get rid of it. but sense its part of a larger program at work, we can’t. now i read this in a news paper, so i cant post the link, but as soon as i do, i will.
When shit hits the fan, guys. <3
If anyone thinks that our government has not been doing things in secret to our citizens (since the very beginning) they are not living in reality.
I’d be more inclined to take someone’s post seriously if they know the difference between ‘Then’ and ‘Than’, ‘Would’ and ‘Wood’, ‘Their’ and ‘There’, ‘Allude and ‘Elude’, ‘Here’ and ‘Hear’, ‘Bear, Bare and Beer (swallow your tongue and roll eye’s back at this point).
And then there’s (not their’s) ‘Prolly’. A sub for probably or just a typo?
Seriously Jeff Has it right.
READ THE BILL FOR YOURSELF! Stop speculating like idiot children.
Specifically, Section 1031 subsection E
“(e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.”
AND Section 1032 Subsection B
“(b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.”
Every worthwhile truth-exposing documentary gets this kind of attack.
Many are paid by the powers that be to sit at computer banks, troll the Internet for anything that undermines the Agenda, and then create bogus disinformation to try to discredit it.
You will notice it is rarely substantive at all, it still servers to scare off a few faint-hearted folks. It comes with the territory and the truth will prevail.
Be strong and go with your gut.
If you are still questioning the validity of this article, please read this one;
http://m.examiner.com/exSaltLakeCity/pm_75314/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=S7DAxEc5
Being an American shouldn’t give you a free pass to be treated differently than terrorists from other countries. If I were a cop, I wouldn’t treat my kids any differently in respect to criminal activities than any other person. It’s just a harder experience to go through if it’s one of your own.
Lou Barba
all i have 2 say about that is my guns are loaded!
I would love to go on for hours on the subject but what good would that do me. All i have to say is, this is America. There is no change. If anything the government is just opening up what they havnt been letting the public openly know. If anything this is probably a sign of a brighter future. I would love to go on on my lifes experiences. But those are gone and in my past. Just because there buckling down and taking control. Dosnt mean any of our rights have been taken away. nough said.
i think this is all BS, i’m a neutral side, i believe there is no true news station that does not part on a poltical Party. but this is a fake
Have you checked on snoopes.com to verify it was a fake?
Yeahhh, I’m going to have to go with the people with actual sense. I, myself, have read the bill, have researched the hell out of this bill, and had it explained by a politician who, by the way, isn’t an evil man whatsoever, but actually went to school for.. you know, political science, amazingly! and there is NOTHING that says the rights of the US citizen will in any way be taken away. Before you write some conspiracy bullshit, go back to school, take an English class, and then come back.
also, at ErinAnn: The library of Congress says otherwise:
“Latest Major Action: 12/1/2011 Passed/agreed to in Senate. Status: Passed Senate with amendments by Yea-Nay. 93 – 7. Record Vote Number: 218. “
Dovakin, what does going back to school to take an English class have to do with understanding Political Science? Also, could you please list your sources. You said a politician explained the bill to you…as far as I’m concerned, he’s made-up. If you want people be find you credible, you should list sources so readers know they are reliable and unbiased (I learned this in College English by the way). Another useful tool would be to avoid attacking opposing views and just list facts, its a logical fallacy, Ad hominem to be exact. (Argument and Reasoning 101).
Thanks.
“(Sec. 1032) Requires U.S. Armed Forces to hold in custody pending disposition a person who was a member or part of al Qaeda or an associated force and participated in planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners. Authorizes the Secretary to waive such requirement in the national security interest. Makes such requirement inapplicable to U.S. citizens or U.S. lawful resident aliens. Outlines implementation procedures.”
Right in the goddamn bill.
Hey 14-year-old, Americans ARE currently in revolt. It’s called the OCCUPY movement. You are only 14, so it makes sense that you would be naive enough to think that there are no secret arrests, but, seriously, you’re old enough to see that Americans have been out in the streets for months now for a reason. I can only assume you’re being fed propaganda by mom & pop or school if you haven’t used your own intellect and noticed this.
You wrote that toward the end of the bill it essentially says it can apply to Americans “if we want it to.”
What section of Bill S.1867 has that language? People can’t/won’t believe this unless we can read it for ourselves. I’ve read through the bill and can’t find the language you’re talking about. However, I will concede that it could have been missed while I was wading through all the finance stuff.
Its not law yet. Besides it will be found unconstitutional like everything else they been trying to pass here lately. OCCUPY EVERYTHING!
My God people. I don’t get it; ”Oh this story is bullshit cause this guy blah blah blah” ”Oh wait, this story might be true cause blah blah blah”. Fucking read!
SEC. 1031. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE.
(a) In General- Congress affirms that the authority of the President to use all necessary and appropriate force pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) includes the authority for the Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered persons (as defined in subsection (b)) pending disposition under the law of war.
(b) Covered Persons- A covered person under this section is any person as follows:
(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.
(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.
(c) Disposition Under Law of War- The disposition of a person under the law of war as described in subsection (a) may include the following:
(1) Detention under the law of war without trial until the end of the hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force.
(2) Trial under chapter 47A of title 10, United States Code (as amended by the Military Commissions Act of 2009 (title XVIII of Public Law 111-84)).
(3) Transfer for trial by an alternative court or competent tribunal having lawful jurisdiction.
(4) Transfer to the custody or control of the person’s country of origin, any other foreign country, or any other foreign entity.
(d) Construction- Nothing in this section is intended to limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force.
(e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.
(f) Requirement for Briefings of Congress- The Secretary of Defense shall regularly brief Congress regarding the application of the authority described in this section, including the organizations, entities, and individuals considered to be `covered persons’ for purposes of subsection (b)(2).
Mr. Adams, please link the title, paragraph, section, and sub-paragraph where you find basis for this allegation. I’m not discrediting your article, I would just like to view the evidence for myself. Thank you!
This NEWSVOICE periodical is ran by misinformed idiots. People should not read these articles and take the information as gospel. The intent of the bill is not geared to hurt, injure, or kill Americans. Its an anti-terrorism bill. Come on America. Lets get the information from the source. Please. I’m a military man. We will “NEVER” assasinate American citizens.
People seem to disagree with that. I have followed the work of Naomi Wolf for some time. Whats your opinion on her? http://naomiwolf.org/
I would imagine there are some police officers who would “NEVER” spray college students with mace, or “NEVER” beat non violent protestors on the street, and “NEVER” quiet the american people, whom they are sworn to protect, thus destroying their right to free expression and assembly.
Whether this is crap or not, you can’t argue that some people are far more comfortable taking orders, no matter how tasteless and inhuman those orders will make them, than standing up for what’s right. It would be so, so easy for this country to become a police state (more so than it already is) because we are all so ignorant and complacent in our ways. We scare easily, and we don’t like to stand alone.
Oh please……I would have loved to have been at that demonstration and took a big poop on one of their heads. I know you listened to all of the hyped media coverage of that cop spraying the students but do you actually know the entire story? The day prior, an email was sent out to all students that explained they will NOT gather on school grounds and if they did, they would be forcibly removed by campus PD. And so, obviously, the next day they formed a group and the campus police responded. Once the PD showed up, the students encircled them while chanting. The police as you could see were bunched back to back and told the students to back away from them. They refused and those people sat down. With an angry group of people surrounding them, what were they to do? They honestly should have just started making arrests which wouldn’t have looked as bad as the mace. But either way it’s obvious that they were surrounded as at the end of the video, after the students were sprayed, the crowd starts chanting, “We will let you leave! We will let you leave!” Do you find that a safe situation? The cops showed up and hundreds of people surrounded them and would not allow them to remove themselves from a potentially dangerous situation. Those whiny kids brought it on themselves and like all criminals I watch on TV just after I watched the camera film them throwing weed out of the window, “This is a set up! That wasn’t mine!” It’s never anyone’s fault, is it…..
Actually, the point of this bill is to reauthorize the funding of the military, not “anti-terrorism”. They should remove the language from this bill as it has nothing to do with the matter at hand (FUNDING), and roll it in to an anti-terrorism bill to see if it passes (it won’t). Putting it in this particular bill is underhanded because it HAS to pass in some form or another and you can call the people voting against it “unamerican” or “freedom haters”.
The bill did *not* pass. See: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/amendment.xpd?session=112&amdt=s1274
Correction: one clarifying amendment did not pass.
The bill itself passed, as reported.
Hasn’t it really always been this way? Atleast it has seemed that way in my life, I’m about 25. The government can break it’s own laws then write new ones, or in this case pretend like they haven’t been breaking there own laws and write a new one. Enjoy the life that you have while you have it! I’m surprised us humans haven’t killed ourselves off already anyways to be honest.
When doing some research on this I found that the bill in question is an annual bill and that the amendment added to it that would allow the military to detain US citizens, called the Udall Amendment, was voted out of the final version of the bill. It’s really a good idea to actually do some real research on something like this before trying to outright scare people with BS!
Here’s the